Not sure if I want to buy a house, anyone else decided not to?

[Drumstick38]

I earn minimum wage, though I am currently applying for higher paid roles.
I have zero debt apart from student loans which is good, and about £1700 in savings.
I can't see how I could ever afford a deposit, as well as all the associated fees. I'm in Greater Manchester and having to look in Bolton, Wigan, Rochdale etc. As everything else is much more expensive.

Aside from this, I think the responsibility of paying a mortgage would be too much for me. I've already lost money this week due to having Covid and having to isolate, I'd be too worried about losing my job or something and not being able to pay.

The repair and maintenance costs are a factor too of buying a house.

I like the flexibility of renting, I don't have any pets and I like that more responsibility falls on the landlord.

The thing that people seem concerned about is in retirement age, and whether people can afford to keep renting, but surely there must be solutions?

Anyone else in a similar situation?

[quote FTEngineerM]@TheLastBeach

1. is it possible to figure out exactly how much they rise? Or is it just inflation? (Actual question not rhetorical). Re mortgaged: whilst the purchase price is set there certainly aren’t any 25 year fixes so at some point the purchaser will either be on standard or have to refix both would be at the mercy of interest rates, it’s clearly marked now on mortgage applications what the payments would be if they were at 11% (back in 2008 interest rate figures I think). When I took out mine for instance it was paying £88k interest over 25 years, I’ve since remortgaged and it’s down to £49k over 23. I remortgaged because interests rates lowered but I’m fully expecting at the next fix is over for them to rise.

2. I know those costs are burdened by the renter I’m not sure I’ve written otherwise. Just as a home owner some seem to be saying it’s cheaper in the long run and quote the purchase price only and that’s a tiny snapshot. Legal fees can get complicated and messy depending on the property, which if you had to pay for additional services every time you remortgage it adds up to a few months rent.

My own DP said ‘so we’ve made 20k on the house’ when it was valued and then I wrote down our costs for him to see and we’ve actually just broke even. We haven’t made a penny. We’ve spent the same in relies, interest and fees and we have made in equity. So us personally wouldn’t have been any better off if we’d carried on renting.[/quote]
property does always go up in the long run because it’s in scant supply generally - we only have limited land on which to build.

but that isn’t in a straight line - there’s something called the 18 year cycle which is really interesting

also building high doesn’t always generate the price increase - again supply and demand economics

The thing that people seem concerned about is in retirement age, and whether people can afford to keep renting, but surely there must be solutions

Dh and I have effectively retired although we both still work odd days here and there.

At the moment we own and we’re planning on going into rented just for a year or so whilst we find a house to buy when our house sale goes through. Possibly a week on Wednesday.

Our problem we are finding is that without full time employment even if we say we will pay the years money upfront it isn’t that easy to rent anything when you are retired. Dd is the one who rental agents have said will have to rent the house as she is the only one who has tax returns for 4 years. Even then what they will allow her to rent is not suitable for all of us
Should add we all have good credit ratings so it isn’t that sort of thing

Add that to the fact we have pets and you might as well be asking for the moon rather than a 3 bed terrace in Walthamstow. The moon would be easier.
Tonight it all imploded. We have given up on renting anything.

I know everyone says rentals are easy and flexible but all we have found is obstacles and snotty rental agents who treat you like you are a piece of dirt on their shoe and rental properties that I have seen for sale on Rightmove that needed renovation that now have cheap carpet laid and being put up for rent with an extortionate monthly price tag.

We have got to the point of thinking that buying something that failed to sell at auction because it is cheap, readily available and the agent isn’t going to make me take a test to see if I am a person of high enough standing because I want to enquire about a property, is going to be so much simpler.

I would save as much as you can and buy the cheapest property you can squeeze into.

Whilst you are younger it can seem that things are easy and renting is the easy route but as you get older problems you didn’t think could exist suddenly crop up and you are left feeling how unfair life is when you are old.

@Confusedaboutlots I answered that poster's question, directed at me, as best I could. I'm not sure what your answer has to do with the question tbh.

Also, the "18 year cycle" is bollocks I'm afraid. In several iterations house prices followed economic cycles, and then they didn't. It doesn't work like that with some magic formula because - as I posted earlier - there are lots of economic, demographic and international factors at play.

@Bythemillpond

The thing that people seem concerned about is in retirement age, and whether people can afford to keep renting, but surely there must be solutions

Dh and I have effectively retired although we both still work odd days here and there.

At the moment we own and we’re planning on going into rented just for a year or so whilst we find a house to buy when our house sale goes through. Possibly a week on Wednesday.

Our problem we are finding is that without full time employment even if we say we will pay the years money upfront it isn’t that easy to rent anything when you are retired. Dd is the one who rental agents have said will have to rent the house as she is the only one who has tax returns for 4 years. Even then what they will allow her to rent is not suitable for all of us
Should add we all have good credit ratings so it isn’t that sort of thing

Add that to the fact we have pets and you might as well be asking for the moon rather than a 3 bed terrace in Walthamstow. The moon would be easier.
Tonight it all imploded. We have given up on renting anything.

I know everyone says rentals are easy and flexible but all we have found is obstacles and snotty rental agents who treat you like you are a piece of dirt on their shoe and rental properties that I have seen for sale on Rightmove that needed renovation that now have cheap carpet laid and being put up for rent with an extortionate monthly price tag.

We have got to the point of thinking that buying something that failed to sell at auction because it is cheap, readily available and the agent isn’t going to make me take a test to see if I am a person of high enough standing because I want to enquire about a property, is going to be so much simpler.

I would save as much as you can and buy the cheapest property you can squeeze into.

Whilst you are younger it can seem that things are easy and renting is the easy route but as you get older problems you didn’t think could exist suddenly crop up and you are left feeling how unfair life is when you are old.

That sounds awful. I am so sorry you have been treated this way.

When I was selling my house to move abroad, and rent in the meantime, the agent who sold my house had a good connection with a local letting agent. I had pets and children, but with him having sold my house he'd seen that it was immaculate regardless of said troublemakers, so his letting agent friend wasn't bothered about the small people/ animals I was taking with me. Is there any option for your agent to help you in that way? Or find one that will?

If it helps them to get the sale (of your current house) trust me they will bend over backwards to get their rental focused colleagues to me more amenable. Because if the sale falls through then they get no commission...

To be more amenable.

Jesus. I've lost coherence so will go to bed now.

Renting not dirty word if you got secure social housing safe from being homeless. Very bad renting in private cos never know if safe. You maybe don't think of getting ill or disabled or redundant but it happens and then you live life everyday fear of homeless. Benefits lower than rents lots of areas. If you get into violent abuse relationship and disability you stuck cos landlords don't take benefits so homeless.

[quote TheLastBeach]@Confusedaboutlots I answered that poster's question, directed at me, as best I could. I'm not sure what your answer has to do with the question tbh.

Also, the "18 year cycle" is bollocks I'm afraid. In several iterations house prices followed economic cycles, and then they didn't. It doesn't work like that with some magic formula because - as I posted earlier - there are lots of economic, demographic and international factors at play.[/quote]
eh? m you asked a question (you said not rhetorical) about how much they rise and whether it’s linked to inflation - i answered your question with my view - it’s not. it’s merely about supply and demand - and yes all the factors that interplay with that

you can see how much they rise year on year from any property manager or rics valuers data book - knight frank, savills, cbre

i work with real estate funds and developers - commercial, institutional etc. overseas investors impact demand, societal changes impact demand, government tax and grants impact supply, planning restrictions impact supply, funding constraints impact supply and demand, socio-economic factors such as covid or the financial crisis impact both, interest rates can impact both (low savings rates encourage investment as real estate offers a better yield)

eg covid is seeing real estate development of build to rent, life sciences, logistics etc. obviously retail and office space is taking a hammering for now

obviously the 18 year cycle isn’t perfectly accurate but it gives a good idea of the long term vision that real estate investment often needs - and yes there’s an interplay with the boom and bust of the economy in terms of financing availability, interest rate linked to inflation (which naturally can be cyclical), job security, need for affordable housing - there are natural cycles to economics due to inflation and that does interplay with property

obviously covid changes a lot

sorry @TheLastBeach - i thought you asked that question i was responding to but you were responding to that question from someone else

i agree with you and think we are broadly saying the same thing - that it’s impossible to predict property increases but in the long run they do usually increase

@nosafeguardingadults

Renting not dirty word if you got secure social housing safe from being homeless. Very bad renting in private cos never know if safe. You maybe don't think of getting ill or disabled or redundant but it happens and then you live life everyday fear of homeless. Benefits lower than rents lots of areas. If you get into violent abuse relationship and disability you stuck cos landlords don't take benefits so homeless.

That's true of renting or buying though: if lightning strikes, you are fucked. Although granted it you rent privately, at least you'lll have some help towards rent. It's a disgrace actually that people who buy houses pay enormous amounts in stamp duty then get zero help when they fall upon hard times.

But yes, I agree. As someone in social housing it's the life of Riley. A fraction of market rent, secure tenure, no responsibility or financial obligations whatsoever. Easy, easy, easy in every way.

@Confusedaboutlots

sorry *@TheLastBeach* - i thought you asked that question i was responding to but you were responding to that question from someone else

i agree with you and think we are broadly saying the same thing - that it’s impossible to predict property increases but in the long run they do usually increase

Ah sorry, I also misunderstoof in that case! It turned up as a response to my post, not the poster before that I'd replied to.

Agree @Confusedaboutlots having read your last posts that we are largely saying the same things.

If had mortgage on a place easier to leave violent partner. Cos then some money from sale to afford rent or buy smaller place. Long relationship and in that time mortgages go down in payments but rents go up and if been mortgage not renting be paid off lots and then enough sale money to get somewhere else smaller to buy or pay big upfront to private rent landlord.

Dangerous in private rent. If disability benefits or unemployment benefits landlords don't want you and benefits lower then rents so why landlord don't want you. If you get disabled big danger of homeless if private renting. You think it won't happen to you but ill or disabled happens no warning sometimes like with me.

TheLastBeach

We sold ourselves so no estate agent and it isn’t really a rental area.
Also it is the fact we are retired that seems to be the problem. As soon as they here that we get the “We don’t deal with those sort of properties”
We aren’t looking for a retirement home we have dc who are adult teens living at home still. But they never get to that point as they have slammed the phone down.

@Bythemillpond

TheLastBeach

We sold ourselves so no estate agent and it isn’t really a rental area.
Also it is the fact we are retired that seems to be the problem. As soon as they here that we get the “We don’t deal with those sort of properties”
We aren’t looking for a retirement home we have dc who are adult teens living at home still. But they never get to that point as they have slammed the phone down.

That'a awful. I'm so sorry. Especially as you have the money to pay a long period up front as you said! Shocking. That makes me even more convinced that young people are better off buying if they possibly can. Something small first, then build up, like all FTB do. But long term there's much more security.

I'm so sorry to hear of your situation and I hope you manage to get a stable home sorted out despite all of this.

When in refuge was women from social housing. Not life of Riley and they was paying rent and bills gas electric stuff. Disabled not life of Riley hard and can make you trapped with abuse or homeless. Think people always should buy if they can cos they should know they can get ill disabled or violent abuse relationship but maybe better more than that is if more social rents so easier for women to leave abuse.

Renting not dirty word

Great projection of something that lierally nobody has said.

Honestly. We're trying to have a sensible discussion and exchange of information and facts here, what is the point of this??

Was said on first page that renting seen as dirty word. Agree with person who says it. I think it is dirty word if on disability and private rent cos means bad dangerous life choosing out of violent abuse or homeless cos private landlords see disability benefits as dirty words or maybe not dirty but bad and not wanting you. Was posting to tell person original person to know renting private dangerous if get disabled or ill or violent relationship cos homeless dangers. If person original person posting can buy safer than private rent. People think disability won't happen to them but it can and maybe helps her to think of that in her decisions.

@nosafeguardingadults

Was said on first page that renting seen as dirty word. Agree with person who says it. I think it is dirty word if on disability and private rent cos means bad dangerous life choosing out of violent abuse or homeless cos private landlords see disability benefits as dirty words or maybe not dirty but bad and not wanting you. Was posting to tell person original person to know renting private dangerous if get disabled or ill or violent relationship cos homeless dangers. If person original person posting can buy safer than private rent. People think disability won't happen to them but it can and maybe helps her to think of that in her decisions.

Somebody they may have said they believe renting is seen as a dirty word.

Nobody who has bought a house, that I've seen, has said that renting it "dirty" or a "dirty word".

So if that's come solely from someone renting and their own perception/ insecurities, that is really sad. But still not the same as "someone said this" so "people who have bought houses said this to others".

Not the same.

I wish we could discuss these things that are going wrong in society without people either becoming defensive or making things up. We'll never get anywhere unless we look at factual data, the causes, and then the solutions to those causes.

@Drumstick38

Should have said I split the rent with my partner, just a bit tired of being asked when I'm going to buy a property, and renting being a dirty word. It's madness

Says dirty word. Want to post maybe helps someone not end up like me. Want people to realise about getting ill disability and dangerous being disability benefits in private rented but different if social rented cos safer.

But that was the OP saying that. Who rents. That's her perspective or worry about how people view it. That isn't what most other posters who either rent or have bought have said.

I have been in shit situations. No heating, no food. I rented for many years. Now I have bought a house, but it's a stretch to pay for with kids on my own as well. I am disabled too. I get no help for that.

I get what you are saying. But I do think you are maybe projecting onto the OP things that are not necessarily an issue for them, right now. If they were disabled or had young DC in the mix, they would probably have said so, The post as I understood it was primarily about - in the absence of personal financial or career info - is buying better than renting if you have the choice (in the ansence of any realistic prospect of social housing)?

In most cases, yes, it usually is. But not all.

I'm struggling to understand what your point is, do you disagree?

There are definitely pros and cons of each. I have lived in both owned and rented. For my own properties I didn't make the best choices, financially I might have been better off renting the whole time and I probably could have had a nicer place. What I liked was that I'm allowed pets, real estate agent can't come nosing around every three months (this is the law where I live) and you can't be asked to leave.

Whatever your choice, there is nothing to be embarrassed about. If someone asks you, own it. Say "actually I love renting, it suits our lifestyle right now". If I'm asked I say "let's not talk about property, argh, so boring, let's talk about some other topic" (I own but i also can't be bothered with this topic).

At the end of the day I get where your coming from and if you can’t afford it you can’t afford it but regardless of how you look at it you are paying someone else’s house payments and not your own you will never get that money back

Not making anything up cos personal experience and real facts and data of personal experience and saying what can happen cos want to help people not end up in dangerous situation like I did. Solution to help women leave violence is social housing maybe not all women but lot of us and if disability very important solution. Feel you're being defensive more than me don't know why angry with me posting to try to help but think you not reading what I've said like not understanding it. Sorry don't mean this personally but your posts reminding me of abuser twisting words and trying to shut me up and sorry know you not him but have to stop posts on thread now to stay ok mentally. Hope my posts helps original person or maybe someone else maybe.

But that was the OP saying that. Who rents. That's her perspective or worry about how people view it. That isn't what most other posters who either rent or have bought have said.

Yes, exactly, I think you have to be a bit careful when you are feeling unsure about something, it often feels like others are looking down on you or critisizing you when they aren't. Renting is an extremely common choice, even among quite wealthy people, and especially in OPs age group. So most likely no one is judging her or thinks anything of it.