New Forest pub bans under 12 year olds...

[Dresssos]

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10159581700162769&id=185263007768

It's all kicking off in the comments.

Do you agree with the pub's decision?

YABU No
YANBU Yes

@Dresssos

For those that can't view the link...

Honestly? Even if the owners are the opposite of me politically, and it doesn't sound like my kind of pub, I think they're right on this one. There are plenty of other pubs which are child-friendly. And plenty of families do misbehave and cause chaos for other punters and leave a mess for the staff to clear up.

Fair play. It's their living.

Local petting zoo has adult only day
They’re bliss! Lots of furry friends to stroke

Although the first one I went to OF COURSE an adult party turned up with a sodding 2yo.

They were given tea and cake in the cafe and then their booking was transferred to another date

But omg did they try to kick up a fuss!

@camaleon

Not sure why pubs are for adults to be honest. Because people get there to drink and get drunk?

I am Spanish. I have lived in France, Switzerland, India, Ireland and, finally, in the UK. The attitude towards kids and pubs was something that took quite a long time to become familiar with. Kids stopped at doors like unwanted pets.

It is culturally acceptable to segregate kids in a pub. Would be unthinkable in Spain to stop a child entering a bar with his parents. I guess there are advantages to both approaches. But it is far from an objective truth that a place that serves drinks are food is, by nature, for adults.

Thats because the drinking culture is different in Spain. Don't kids drink wine with their meals earlier? I know French kids do and they're generally more sensible about alcohol. Not that Spanish or French people don't get pissed and make arses of themselves, but they don't do it to the extent Brits do. Same elsewhere, I went to Carnival in Cologne in 2005 and it was lovely, people were drinking loads and there was free beer everywhere but it wasn't as frightening as going out on a Friday night here in the UK can be. The drinking culture here seems to be about getting completely paralytic to the point where you're being sick or barely able to stand.

It is just acceptable in the UK to exclude children from this environment, that as a consequence becomes very unfriendly for children.

Tbf it's not just uk.
I don't remember when have I seen kids in pubs where I grew up in the evening. Bigger pubs also used to have separate dining areas. Some was a smoking one, some family ome, some calmer. Depending on a size. People take kdis for dinner, but don't stay late. They take them for lunches.
But I have never in over 30 years of my life experienced the behaviour like in UK in the numbers like in UK. Which is quite sad. But it genuinely explains why places are going child free here.

@Franklyfrost

It’s alarming some people dislike children so much they can’t bear to be in the same space as them. But it’s a good idea to have a designated pub for all the grumpies, that way they can complain about each other and save the rest of us from their tutting. I sometimes take my kids to the pub, they sit there and drink an orange juice, it’s terribly offensive.

Good thing nobody actually minds kids just sitting there drinking an orange juice, then.

Excellent news as I live close by. I will be booking! I went elsewhere to a lunch last week. Family on next door table had chosen to keep their child ages about 3 occupied by giving her a phone and playing Peppa Pig on it - at top volume. So our civilised lunch was punctuated by the high pitched voices and music on Peppa bloody Pig for the first half hour. Don't get me wrong, my own kids loved Peppa Pig and that age, and it's not a bad idea to keep a child occupied. But turn the voice down. Or give her headphones, don't force everyone else to listen to it when they're in a decent restaurant. I made eye contact with the mother a few times but she just looked away.

Mind me there is a difference between a pub and a restaurant so I am talking pubs. Then you have pub looking restaurants which serve food till about 9, there you see kids even later. But proper pubs, not really

I went in a pub in the afternoon with my two children to order a coke each while my other daughter was getting her hair done. I was asked to take a picture of something so that I could do the track and trace. I was having problems doing this and the girl was stood far back so she was no help. I walked out in the end not worth the bother. There is a lot of fear in the hospitality sector. I went into a nice coffee shop with my 6 year old son and all I had to do was fill out some details on a form.

Sorry @camaleon you misunderstand me. I'm not saying that young children are not taken out at all in other European countries, but rather that if young children cannot behave properly then in that case they are not taken out.

There were a number of comments that European children are all much better behaved, my point is that some European children are not well behaved but the difference is that their parents in that case tend not to take them out, so you don't have to deal with them.

I've lived in France and Germany and it's just not true that all kids there are little angels. The difference is more that parents don't inflict them on other diners if they can't behave.

Or they could just have asked the family in question to leave

Brilliant! We went to a pub on Sunday lunchtime that has won awards for their food. It's not cheap but it's amazing. Meal was pretty much spoiled by a couple with two children - aged probably about 7 and 10 - who were just awful. Loud, getting under the table and fighting. Sent out to the garden (there isn't really a garden, it's outdoor seating for customers!). Kept running back in and out again. Nightmare.

@HopeForTheBestExpectTheWorst

Or they could just have asked the family in question to leave

It's quite clear that this one family was the last straw. They didn't make this decision bases on the behaviour of just one family.

Totally agree with you @dreamingbohemian.
I do believe kids behave quite similar everywhere. Perhaps the general acceptance that children will be there also changes the overall envrionment, so everybody is looking after kids, instead of ignoring them/getting drunk/etc.

I never took my kids to the Pub in the UK once I realised it was really not a great place for kids. But they have been out with me until 3 or 4 am many times in summer in Spain. It would not occurred to me to leave them behind.

In brief, my perception is that this is not so much about how people behave, more about a particular culture around drinking and separation between adults and children.

On the other hand, I have never found so many exciting possibilities to enjoy with kids as I have in the UK. There are many spaces designed for them; something I don't think is true elsewhere.

It’s alarming some people dislike children so much they can’t bear to be in the same space as them

It's not a dislike of children, it's a dislike of badly behaved children and ineffectual, selfish parents who either can't or won't control their children and couldn't care less about the effect on other people's enjoyment.

@kofiban

This country has such a weird attitude to children in public places and this thread proves it. So because some parents let their children misbehave then ALL children should be banned? Total overkill.

#natallkids

@MissDollyMix

On the one hand I wouldn't be visiting, with or without my children. It says to me (rightly or wrongly) that it's a stuck up, unfriendly establishment. In general, I hate how un-child friendly this country is, and there's definitely a tendency for the child-haters to stick the boot in. However, on the other hand, it's their pub and their right to do what they want. I do have some sympathy, as it's really annoying when there are badly behaved families on other tables, children running around etc Parents should not let that happen. Children should be taught how to behave when out in public.

How on earth is this country un-child-friendly? Children are allowed literally everywhere!

Genuine question btw, not trying to be goady. I am really struggling to see how the UK can be called un-child-friendly when there are very few places that don't allow children.

@BronwenFrideswide

It’s alarming some people dislike children so much they can’t bear to be in the same space as them

It's not a dislike of children, it's a dislike of badly behaved children and ineffectual, selfish parents who either can't or won't control their children and couldn't care less about the effect on other people's enjoyment.

Children don't belong in pubs. It's not abnormal to not want to share space with rampaging kids in a bloody pub, fgs.

@Franklyfrost

It’s alarming some people dislike children so much they can’t bear to be in the same space as them. But it’s a good idea to have a designated pub for all the grumpies, that way they can complain about each other and save the rest of us from their tutting. I sometimes take my kids to the pub, they sit there and drink an orange juice, it’s terribly offensive.

Don't be disingenuous. It's obvious that the problem for people and establishments alike is badly behaved children, not children per se.

It could also be to do with finances? 4 adults will spend and eat more than two adults and four children- but take up the same amount of space.

Some children do ruin the pub atmosphere for me, and I adore children. some parents just can't parent or install manners!

GreyhoundG1rl I was answering a poster claiming there was an inherent dislike of children, there isn't, there is a dislike of badly behaved children and ineffectual parents wherever they may be.

Children don't belong in pubs. It's not abnormal to not want to share space with rampaging kids in a bloody pub, fgs.

Surely it's only rampaging children that don't belong in pubs. What's your issue with quiet well behaved ones being there?

I have 3 kids and only take them to family friendly places, so pubs with play areas etc, restaurants that cater specifically for children. And I usually don’t go on days and times I expect people to be having a child free evening.

It’ll be easier as they get older to go out places but for now I think it’s fine to have adult only places or places with age restrictions to eat.

@CovidCorvid I think most pubs these days do a gluten free menu.
That's our experience anyway, as a family member is coeliac. Even our small local city pub offers gluten free and vegan menu

I can't stand dogs in pubs or shops - and it's only going to get worse with all the unruly lockdown puppies - but c'est la vie !