To think jury duty is going to ruin my summer plans

[sulkingaboutjuryduty]

Got my jury duty summons which I was fairly gutted about, having recently returned from mat leave, I'm a part time accountant and I love my job.

Asked to defer and was declined, so it starts on 16th August. I have a 15 month old and a 3.5year old, the 3.5 year old has 30 free hours which I use on my 3 working days and then the baby is with my mum. In six week holidays I was planning to take a mixture of annual leave, pay for holiday clubs and mum will help out a bit. Now there will be at least 2 weeks of their "school holidays" where I can't do anything with them, I've got to fork out for childcare over and above my working pattern and reading the leaflet, it doesn't qualify for claiming back?

My work have been great and said they will pay my normal salary so I won't need to claim loss of earnings but if I've got to put them in childcare it's going to cost me a fortune! My mum can't have them on my non working weekdays as she works, the baby will need a settling in period and the childcare setting I use require a months' notice to terminate so I'm looking at possibly six weeks nursery fee for her.
I'm just feeling like I will be significantly impacted by this.

@MrsFin

I would love to do jury duty!

Eh, be careful what you wish for. I've done it twice. First time very easy, very very obvious fake grudge accusation with 0 evidence and totally contradictory story with more plot holes than the season finale of Game of Thrones. Unanimous and very fast. The second time was horrible, really awful crime and a lot of conflicting evidence, went on forever and I'll never forget some of the details.

As an aside, my uncle got out of jury duty by saying he couldn't be unbiased as he believes the police are corrupt and racist. Which he does. He wrote a whole letter explaining these beliefs and his reasons for them. And he got off. This was decades ago, mind you, I don't know if it would today.

I would try and be excused again. I was excused when DS was small. I was living on my own at the time. He was not in childcare at the time either. I never heard from them again. Just need to have a good argument not to in writing - that worked for me anyway.

Dp has recently done jury duty. He was told that they are really grateful of people doing it at the minute as many people refuse due to covid. I don't think they can force people in because of the virus. He was done after a week. It was all very covid safe. He could claim, parking, fuel, food and loss of earnings. His work paid a percentage and the jury service makes up the rest.

Sucky situation regarding working, childcare etc though!

I would try and be excused again. Are you a single parent op?

I think theyre taking the piss saying you cant opt out, just write back with everything you have said here. Give them a very long list. you cant afford the childcare for a start. I wdnt be trying to fit in with them in yr circumstances. Good luck, sounds like you have enough on your plate.

@sulkingaboutjuryduty

I requested to defer due to childcare issues and due to timing clashing with harvest and I received a notification to say my deferral was refused and that I was required to attend on 16th August - there was no advice on further recourse?

So I think I will go on 16th and try to plead with them on the day - is that the next option available to me? MIL has said this morning I could leave baby with her but she will be driving backwards and forwards from the yard to the fields with diesel/lunch/repairs for the boys and so it won't be the best option for her.

I'm one of those people who likes planning and routine and so it's stressing me out that everything will be thrown up into the air for this.

I really support the concept of jury duty but it seems frustrating that there are so many people who would LOVE to do it, and so many of us forced to do it at a particular time which will make life a logistical nightmare.

I would turn up with my children and explain that I have no childcare. They’ll soon send you home. As for finding it interesting/rewarding, that depends entirely on what kind of trial to end up on. There’s nothing interesting about a two month financial trial.

They really should overhaul the system. Disinterested jurors (I know this isn’t the case with you OP) are a pain in the ass. They sit there with their eyes glazed over, mess about giggling and chatting. You can just tell they are not paying attention or listening, which can be devastating for justice.

Whilst I see it is inconvenient for you, and a later time in your life might be better.
Jury service is a social responsibility we all have to do. You should study the rules, and play your role in the justice system.

You can appeal, and they should have accepted your request to defer - everyone is allowed to defer once with a good enough reason.
There is no way I would be happy with putting a baby in childcare for this reason.
I have done jury service and I have worked in courts all my life - appeal to the jury office who sent you the summons, if that doesn't work then phone in the court the week before - they are in charge of your jury service one week before but not before that - it's all centralised now.
Your last resort is to turn up on the day with your baby. But the ways things stand I'd be surprised if they don't excuse you beforehand anyway - your service is still a few weeks away and they may have too many jurors at this point and will try and whittle the number down.

@21Flora

All these people commenting about your husband stopping the harvest have no idea what they are on about 😂 getting the harvest in will likely be the basic of the entire years income. You are expecting OPs husband to throw away a years work!? If the combine stops, everything stops.

^^ this, complete ignorance of just what a farming life is like 🙄 It’s not all Emmerdale and the Archers!

Many years ago, a retired neighbour didn’t want to cancel his holiday for jury duty. He wrote back along the lines of “many thanks fir this wonderful opportunity. I’ve always wanted to put that sort behind bars and glad you’ll finally let me”. They excused him by return of post

I was told loads of people just don't turn up.

I'm in my 50s (used to be a legal secretary as a PP mentioned) and got called up first when I was in my 20s, when I would have been 38 weeks pregnant at the start of my jury service. I was excused then. Called again when my children were young, including one with a severe disability, no support (fucking useless husband - I'm divorced now). Excused again.

Everything crossed you are excused OP.

I was summoned for jury duty shortly after my first baby was born. I was allowed to defer it until she was a year old, so it started just a few weeks after I had returned to work.

I was allowed to claim childcare costs that were additional to what I would normally pay. This included paying my mothers travel costs for her to come and look after my baby for one day.

What happened when I was there was that, for each trial, a load of people were randomly selected to go along and be part of the pool of potential people from which to select a juror. You were told beforehand how long the trial was likely to be. On day 1 I didn't get called for anything. On day 2 I got called to go to the selection for a trial that would be 8 weeks long. We got a chance to go up to the judge and tell him if we didn't feel we could be on the jury for that long. So I went and told them it was too long for me to be away from my very young child all day every day. He accepted that and withdrew me from the selection for that trial. On the third day I didn't even need to come in, I was told to check my phone and I'd get a message if I was needed. They messaged and said they didn't need me any more and that was the end of my jury duty!

Some of the comments

OP I want to know your income DOWN TO THE PENNY!!!

I was called for jury duty and despite working in theatre during one of our worst spells of low staffing/huge trauma lists they wouldn’t accept the letter from my boss. In the end I had to go, spent all of day one reading a book and wasn’t picked. Day two I didn’t have to attend at all and day three I was told I wasn’t required for the remaining few weeks.

Such a pain in the arse, I don’t care if it’s “civic duty”. I see and hear enough harrowing things at work without having to potentially sit through it for days/weeks and then decide the fate of someone. It’s a terrible system.

I would never have put my 13 month old in childcare, can’t you claim no childcare? Turn up on the day with your baby and ask what they suggest?

I was excused from jury service when l had under 5s and was breast feeding. It is not ok for them to expect you to put your children into childcare you are not happy about. You definitely need to appeal on the combined nature of farming and child care

Sorry l missed the bit where you did appeal on those grounds what’s wrong with whoever said you had not case!

I would go and pretend I knew the person or that I am so pleased to be called as I think everyone should be jailed.

My sister got out of it by waiting she had bad bowels

If no women with children ever do jury service then the jury will always be skewed to men or childless people or older women. It's supposed to represent a cross section of society. Yes it's inconvenient but everyone has a duty to do jury service when asked. It won't work if everyone tries to get out of it because it doesn't suit their plans

4,000 acres. What’s the farms annual turnover?

The fucking prosecutor has arrived then

When my DH was called for jury service, I claimed childcare costs for the times he would normally care for our children, so nursery for 2 days a week and 2 lots of after school club twice a week. Simply submitted the additional invoices and it was paid to us.

You are not supposed to be out of pocket

@pinkprosseco

If no women with children ever do jury service then the jury will always be skewed to men or childless people or older women. It's supposed to represent a cross section of society. Yes it's inconvenient but everyone has a duty to do jury service when asked. It won't work if everyone tries to get out of it because it doesn't suit their plans

Then they need to change the system so that people aren't penalised for doing it.

Christ there are some fucking stupid replies in this thread!

All these "just" turn up with kids, "just" don't turn up, "just" lie about mental health, etc, etc... it's not a fucking game you know, there's such a thing as 'contempt of court' and they really do not piss about with people trying to pull a fast one.

I'm not for a moment saying that OP should be forced to have to take up some drastically inappropriate childcare option, but people shouldn't be posting blasé advice around what's possible.

If so many people didn't throw bullshit excuses at jury officers and courts all the time, there'd probably be more opportunity for genuine hardship cases to defer or be excused.

And those saying they'd love to do it and they've got the time, etc., etc., are ignoring the idea that it's supposed to be a totally random selection of 12 adults from wide and varied backgrounds on a jury, not 12 retired white Daily Mail or Guardian readers. Excluding mothers, across the board, would be a terrible, terrible thing for the justice system.

It is a pain in the arse, and I myself did 3 weeks on a serious sexual assault and multiple rape case but I'm glad I did it and was able to help make sure a dangerous criminal was convicted. It's a very worthwhile use of anyone's time.

Again, to reiterate, I'm not suggesting OP should 'suck it up', because she clearly has major childcare problems, but I do wish people wouldn't be so quick to launch into throwing around bullshit.

pinkprosseco no one is saying no women with children should attend just particular circumstances with children. No child should be forced into childcare for the convenience of the state.

@soupey1

I would love to do jury service and have never been called. Even years ago when my children were small I would have loved it but I did have a good support network so childcare wouldn’t have been a problem.

Anyone can go and sit in the public gallery of the court; I used to take groups of students and recommend it as both interesting and educational.

I would just call them and state that you have bent over backwards to get childcare during this period and it cannot be done. You are happy to attend but will have both your children with you.

If you know what the case is, voicing a bias will also get you dropped like a hot potato.

I think it was on here I read that someone told them she couldn't wait to hear the case because as far as she was concerned, the guy was guilty already. She was excused.

Good luck getting deferred OP, I'd call the court to explain again the challenges.
I was called 4/5 years ago (pre children), requested deferral because we were very short staffed for the 2 weeks I was called (NHS). It was accepted but they called me up in the same letter to attend 6 weeks after the first call (so deferred August, new date October).
Word of caution, there was no being excused on my 2 weeks (unless you knew the case/participants in the case). I was required to attend every day for the 10 working days. Some early finishes/late starts but was in court every day. So please don't assume that you will get excused on day 1.