To think jury duty is going to ruin my summer plans

[sulkingaboutjuryduty]

Got my jury duty summons which I was fairly gutted about, having recently returned from mat leave, I'm a part time accountant and I love my job.

Asked to defer and was declined, so it starts on 16th August. I have a 15 month old and a 3.5year old, the 3.5 year old has 30 free hours which I use on my 3 working days and then the baby is with my mum. In six week holidays I was planning to take a mixture of annual leave, pay for holiday clubs and mum will help out a bit. Now there will be at least 2 weeks of their "school holidays" where I can't do anything with them, I've got to fork out for childcare over and above my working pattern and reading the leaflet, it doesn't qualify for claiming back?

My work have been great and said they will pay my normal salary so I won't need to claim loss of earnings but if I've got to put them in childcare it's going to cost me a fortune! My mum can't have them on my non working weekdays as she works, the baby will need a settling in period and the childcare setting I use require a months' notice to terminate so I'm looking at possibly six weeks nursery fee for her.
I'm just feeling like I will be significantly impacted by this.

@nothingcanhurtmewithmyeyesshut

I would just call them and state that you have bent over backwards to get childcare during this period and it cannot be done. You are happy to attend but will have both your children with you.

If you know what the case is, voicing a bias will also get you dropped like a hot potato.

I think it was on here I read that someone told them she couldn't wait to hear the case because as far as she was concerned, the guy was guilty already. She was excused.

Crap like this does not help anyone.

"Voicing a bias" or telling "them" (who?) that you think the person is guilty before the case has started could see you summarily punished.

It's within a Judge's remit to instant

Posted too soon:

It's within a Judge's remit to instantly declare anyone in a court to be in contempt.

It's not something to mess around with.

@Zzelda

Somewhat absurdly my BIL is a lawyer and automatically barred from jury service despite not having been near a criminal court in nearly 20 years (I'm not saying he should, just absurd that I'm not when my whole working week is in a court room)

If he's in England, he isn't barred from jury duty.

If he's in Scotland, he is. barred. Many other employments/ professions are excused jury service "as of right" including doctors, nurses, vets and dentists

I was summoned in June for mid August last year when all holiday clubs were expected to be shut and I asked to be excused. That was not done lightly as I hadn't been summoned before and really wanted to do it. I had a 9 yo now 10 yo dd but with DH a critical worker and all GP's in 70's there was no knowledge of what childcare we could get. I was WFH so homeschooling (of sorts) during term time. Request was denied and told to turn up at set date August 2020 and the letter was worded in a very final way. Had all the same feelings about it and rang them up on the number on the letter. Was allowed to defer so now I am due to attend on 16th August this year. It was on the letter that I could suggest 3 alternative start dates within the year but at that time (June 2020) it was not known when schools would be open or holiday clubs and my work is ridiculously busy (land agent so farming advice work) from mid March to mid May then another deadline end of July. I was told that I could give a months notice to start it earlier than the full year deferral but there hasn't been a time that would work due to Covid resurgence over winter and then busy at work. I would strongly recommend phoning the number as I got a really helpful person who agreed that the standard letter missed out all sorts that would be helpful to know. Good luck as there is no way a deferral should have been refused in your circumstances.

@Bravesoul

pinkprosseco no one is saying no women with children should attend just particular circumstances with children. No child should be forced into childcare for the convenience of the state.

The OPs thread started as per title about ruining summer plans if it was real concern for childcare this was not immediately obvious. Too many people are trying to get out of their civic duty as it is inconvenient and they would prefer to do something else.

[quote BearOfEasttown]@sulkingaboutjuryduty YANBU and as a pp said, I would totally lie, and say I am breastfeeding (if it's not too late for you to do that.)

It's a fucking RIDICULOUS situation, and absurd to the extreme that these clueless powers-that-be call up young mums like this. It should be made law that any woman with children under 12 are not called for jury duty, because what the fuck are you meant to do with your primary-school age children?

I agree with a pp that it's outdated and misogynistic. I also agree with the pp saying 'trial by jury' is utter bollocks anyway, and needs consigning to the history books... 12 random people who know fuckall about the person in the dock, and many who know fuckall about much else, deciding whether you go to prison or not!

As for the 'I would LOVE to do jury duty' brigade. GOOD FOR YOU! It does seem to be middle aged and older people, and people with no school age children who come out with this though! Try being called up for it when you have one or more children under 10, and having to deal with the nightmare with childcare issues.

Some people are so insensitive and obtuse. Yeah, so people have successfully 'got out of it.' Good for them! 'It's your civic duty' some cry. So what? It's a democratic country, and no-one should be forced to do ANYthing. What's more, we have the 'I would LOVE to do it' brigade, so maybe we should have a juror volunteer register, so all the smug 'it's your civic duty' fuckers can put their name down!!

I also agree with a pp that the OP who said it's a great, exciting experience is talking crap. It will either be boring to the extreme, and take you away from your family, OR it will be harrowing and upsetting.

My brother wants to do it desperately, and have a really long trial, so he can get months off work, because he hates his job. He doesn't realise though, that he may be away from home for months on end, and staying in a hotel with the rest of the jurors. It won't be like a holiday! He will be trapped, restricted in what he can do and where he can go, he probably won't be allowed to use his phone, and he will be away from home for a number of months.

Being a juror is no picnic. It's shit, and the ones who say 'I would love to do it!' will be eating their words when/if they are called up.

And yes. I HAVE done it. Won't say what for or what trial. But I have. And I hated every minute of it.[/quote]
Hear hear!

@2bazookas not sure what the state of play is in England, but the Scottish courts aren't allowing general members of the public in as they need to maintain distancing.

Even victim's families have been limited in number

@blueshoes selfish
If everyone took your me me me attitude society would collapse eventually.. yeah even the bits you approve of.

Just came on to wonder why everyone piled on to tell you your BIL was wrong, ravenclawsome, with reference to what the situation is in England and Wales, when it was fairly obvious that you were in Scotland (you'd hinted in the first few lines of your post!). But you've beaten me to it.
Particularly like the PP who wanted to tell you that lawyers aren't barred from jury duty 'in the UK' . You'd better tell your BIL that the Scottish and English and Welsh jurisdictions have now been combined which was news to me as well

I've recently 'got out of doing it' - be upset if you want. Key worker wfh and single parent not using wrap around childcare, which is full around here anyway especially with limits due to covid.
They explicitly said they would consider excusing you if you were a key worker or if you would have difficulty accessing childcare.
Actually this was my 2nd time getting out of it - first time was to be start of April 20, wrote in when the word was that schools might be closing to say i would be unable to attend if they did as all other formal childcare would also likely close too, and was excused.
In hindsight i should probably have done it this time and got it over with as you were not to attend the jury centre (local cinema) unless you were actually selected for a case. Just to phone in to the info line every night. I rang up to check out of curiosity anyway. Every night it was the same ' you won't be needed tomorrow' message except one day when it said some of the group might get a phone call at some time during the day (I'm sure i could have been hanging the washing out or having a shit or something if the phone rang and missed it), then the next night (4th or 5th night i think) the call was my group of numbers were no longer required.
There were 4 groups of 200 between the Sheriff court and the high court - that is 800 people inconvenienced every 2 weeks for a single small court. The administration must be phenomenal.

Like many I think the jury system is ridiculous. It inconveniences far too many people especially when you have to force formal childcare onto children who do not normally use them - an no, despite what some om MN think there is not an emergency nanny hanging out on every street corner waiting for a call to action at 7am when you find out the nursery is shut because the boiler is broken or whatever.

Much of the general public is to f'in stupid or gullible to be allowed to do it - this year has shown us that in spades. In fact just reading this thread has shown us that many are incapable of understanding or retaining simple pieces of information.
Every other week you read in the paper of some daft bint who has given her £100k life savings to some american soldier she met on a dating site but honest he is real and its not a scammer.
Trained professional juries would be much more suitable. Simply the time taken to train every new jury in the processes and procedures is a huge waste of everybody in the court systems time.
The premise that you are being tried by a jury of your peers is also a fallacy. The alcoholic wife beating petty criminal with a rap sheet longer than your arm who has never done a days work in his life or contributed in any positive way to society is certainly no peer of mine and I hope not yours. Frankly if they built enough of a case for the CPS to think it is worth taking it to court they are probably guilty of something - you don't tend to end up in court by running your affairs in a manner that does not attract attention from the police.

if it was real concern for childcare this was not immediately obvious.

Well, apart from the entire paragraph about childcare.

The problem is not people being "selfish", it is a shit system that does not adequately allow for childcare problems. In a society where companies are increasingly put under pressure to be "family friendly" it is pathetic that they can't sort this out.

If you think it's appropriate to be forced to put children in unfamiliar childcare settings at considerable expense there is something wrong.

Pinkprosecco, what is the point of making 12 lay persons who are more likely than not intellectually very average who clearly don't want to be there (and making excuses on the day itself) sit through an endless if not sometimes harrowing facts and process legal principles they could not access. So that they can make decisions on the liberty of another individual.

I am guessing there is a better way than this? Not every country has a jury based justice system.

@user1471447863

I've recently 'got out of doing it' - be upset if you want. Key worker wfh and single parent not using wrap around childcare, which is full around here anyway especially with limits due to covid. They explicitly said they would consider excusing you if you were a key worker or if you would have difficulty accessing childcare. Actually this was my 2nd time getting out of it - first time was to be start of April 20, wrote in when the word was that schools might be closing to say i would be unable to attend if they did as all other formal childcare would also likely close too, and was excused. In hindsight i should probably have done it this time and got it over with as you were not to attend the jury centre (local cinema) unless you were actually selected for a case. Just to phone in to the info line every night. I rang up to check out of curiosity anyway. Every night it was the same ' you won't be needed tomorrow' message except one day when it said some of the group might get a phone call at some time during the day (I'm sure i could have been hanging the washing out or having a shit or something if the phone rang and missed it), then the next night (4th or 5th night i think) the call was my group of numbers were no longer required. There were 4 groups of 200 between the Sheriff court and the high court - that is 800 people inconvenienced every 2 weeks for a single small court. The administration must be phenomenal.

Like many I think the jury system is ridiculous. It inconveniences far too many people especially when you have to force formal childcare onto children who do not normally use them - an no, despite what some om MN think there is not an emergency nanny hanging out on every street corner waiting for a call to action at 7am when you find out the nursery is shut because the boiler is broken or whatever.

Much of the general public is to f'in stupid or gullible to be allowed to do it - this year has shown us that in spades. In fact just reading this thread has shown us that many are incapable of understanding or retaining simple pieces of information.
Every other week you read in the paper of some daft bint who has given her £100k life savings to some american soldier she met on a dating site but honest he is real and its not a scammer.
Trained professional juries would be much more suitable. Simply the time taken to train every new jury in the processes and procedures is a huge waste of everybody in the court systems time.
The premise that you are being tried by a jury of your peers is also a fallacy. The alcoholic wife beating petty criminal with a rap sheet longer than your arm who has never done a days work in his life or contributed in any positive way to society is certainly no peer of mine and I hope not yours. Frankly if they built enough of a case for the CPS to think it is worth taking it to court they are probably guilty of something - you don't tend to end up in court by running your affairs in a manner that does not attract attention from the police.

If you ever get accused of something you haven't done user (you obviously think that doesn't happen), may you have a fair trial in front of a jury who think absolutely nothing like you do.

@eastegg in that very circumstance a professional trained jury would be a hell of a lot more use than 12 people who dont want to be there or who are more concerned that their child may still be screaming the nursery down or wondering how much money they are losing by being there. Or who think there's no smoke without fire and he's got shifty eyes, if he didn't do this one he's probably done something else anyway.

Go on the 16th August with baby (or both) & say here I am. Child care wasn’t available, nor can I afford it. Children stay with me.
For sure they’ll send you home. 😂

I think write to the court again and say you have no childcare for the baby and will have to bring her with you. If necessary turn up with baby for day 1. I'm sure they will excuse you. What else can they do?

@eastegg

Just came on to wonder why everyone piled on to tell you your BIL was wrong, ravenclawsome, with reference to what the situation is in England and Wales, when it was fairly obvious that you were in Scotland (you'd hinted in the first few lines of your post!). But you've beaten me to it. Particularly like the PP who wanted to tell you that lawyers aren't barred from jury duty 'in the UK' . You'd better tell your BIL that the Scottish and English and Welsh jurisdictions have now been combined which was news to me as well

To be fair he's dual trained so wouldn't make a huge difference to him 😂

Seriously guys though, Scotland has a whole separate (and slightly different legal system. We don't have manslaughter, we have culpable homicide. We don't have arson, we have wilful fire raising. We don't have GBH, we have assault to severe injury... etc

You can claim for childcare on jury duty from the courts. Hopefully you’ll not be needed. It is such an inconvenience to perform ones civic duty-not to mention the disturbing cases you may have to witness.

I would have loved to do jury duty while I was employed just for the experience - I worked at a university so time off/loss of pay was not an issue. Instead I got called just after my 60th birthday when I was retired from employed work and running my own business. I got off by saying I had panic attacks and agoraphobia. They did not ask for a doctors note but I could have got one.

Find a convenient illness like a pulled muscle in your back and get a sick note.

got off by saying I had panic attacks and agoraphobia. They did not ask for a doctors note but I could have got one.

Find a convenient illness like a pulled muscle in your back and get a sick note.

You must be so proud of yourself.

To be honest, you might be worrying over nothing - I was called up recently & discharged almost immediately as there weren't enough cases being heard - I wasn't even out of work a day! Apparently it happens quite a lot.

Surely there’s plenty of people that can do it without primary school aged children? Then those who have young children ..or any children..can do it during term time?! Some people are desperate to do it..and never get called. I know I would be gutted to lose 2 weeks with my children this summer after all the lockdowns etc & would not be happy at having to find and pay for childcare . Hope you get it sorted op.

I was called three years ago. I was quite looking forward to it as had no issues with kids etc.
Morning of the first day I woke up feeling awful. Coughing, eyes streaming, aching etc. Dragged myself to the court where the lady organising the jurors took one look at me and called me a taxi home.

You need to contest the decision and not leave it until the day. Go with the BF and the childcare secondary.

Jury service is an obligation for everyone. You will be taking part in a century's old practice which has ensured our fundamental freedoms against oppression.
Yes it may be a hassle but please try to fulfil your duty. If no-one accepts the challenge of jury service it threatens one of the pillars on which our liberal democracy is founded.
Good luck!