To ask for help with financial pickle

[ShoebillStork]

In 2009 FIL had a win on the Premium Bonds. He gave us £10,000 to invest for DS (at low risk) and the money to be given to DS when he's 18.

I put the money towards a loft conversion. DS is 18 soon and I'm due to remortgage for a better rate. How much do I need to release for him so he gets the £10k plus what it might have gained in interest since 2009.

And should I encourage DS to get a Help to Buy ISA with it?

[quote Bangolads]@GappyValley you are ridiculous and should get a grip.[/quote]
Ridiculous for understanding the meaning of words?

Ok then 😂😂😂

@GappyValley

Do you normally think it's ok to steal someone's property as long as the legal technicalities are ok? Or is it only OK to steal it because he's a child?

You can quite clearly don’t understand what the word ‘steal’ means
Maybe step away from the thread and spend the time getting acquainted with a dictionary for a bit..?

The son's money is not £10k, the grandfather asked for it to be invested so it is £10k plus whatever investment income or losses for the past 10 years. By planning to keep the investment income, the mother intends to deprive the son of his own property, namely investment income. Please do look up any legal definition of theft if you're confused. I presume the son would be unable to prove the money was to have been invested for him, unless the grandfather is still alive to confirm he asked for it to be invested, but ethically it's still the son's money.

*Whatever you decide to give your son just be careful of the tax implications of gifting money, because this is essentially what it will now look like - a parent gifting a child money - as even though you were given it to be given to your child (the grandchild) it wasn't at the time and was used for your own personal use (in the eyes of the law).

So going forward now, you are able to give cash gifts of up to £3000 per tax year without any tax liability. You can bring forward any amount you didn't use from the previous year but you can only do that for one year so, for example, if you didn't give any of your £3000 allowance in 20/21 you can give £6000 in 21/22.*

If she has an estate above the IHT limit (currently £1m for a married couple), if she dies within seven years.

If the estate is above £2m, some of the IHT allowance will taper.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing!

By planning to keep the investment income, the mother intends to deprive the son of his own property, namely investment income

Have you even read this thread.

She doesn't plan to do this.

Please do look up any legal definition of theft if you're confused

Please do read the thread. It is confusing in places.

Esp references to 'other men'

@sunglassesonthetable

By planning to keep the investment income, the mother intends to deprive the son of his own property, namely investment income

Have you even read this thread.

She doesn't plan to do this.

If you give £10,000 your money to a third party investor and they earn £20,000 with your money, then the investor states they have decided to only give you £5000 interest, would you think: A) That's fair and reasonable B) The other £15,000 is my money, they're stealing it from me. It's exactly that, except the investor is his own mother.

I wonder what replies you would have hit if you’d come on the thread to say ‘Fuck, GPs gave us £10k to put in a savings account for DS, and I totally forgot. I’ve got the capital but what interest do I owe him?’

*If you give £10,000 your money to a third party investor and they earn £20,000 with your money, then the investor states they have decided to only give you £5000 interest, would you think:
A) That's fair and reasonable
B) The other £15,000 is my money, they're stealing it from me.
It's exactly that, except the investor is his own mother.
*
I see you put no value on DS and DSS 's day to day circumstances growing up.

The investor ( DM and DSM ) DID put a value on that.

You do not quantify it. You see it as dry as dust numbers on a page.

This is not a arrangement struck between customer and investor.

This is an arrangement whereby DM makes the most of money - financially, emotionally, practically THROUGHOUT a 10 yr period.

NOT JUST AT THE END.

Stop fixating on financial advisors and third party investors. It means shit. CONTEXT.

@mrex

And now we come full circle to the mass inability of posters on this thread to differentiate between an investment and a loan

Nothing at ALL in OPs posts have indicated the money was invested in her property
Everything points to her borrowing the money off her son to put towards her home improvement

Just because the FIL said ‘invest this’ doesn’t mean the way the money was spent automatically becomes an investment

But an awful lot of people seem to be unable to look beyond this at the actual situation which is quite plainly ‘mum dipped into child’s savings, now wants to replace them with a suitable amount of interest’

But this has all be lost in the frothing and handwringing

Does that mean my kids have been treated worse than yours, op?
**

Yes, now come and take my place in the stocks as I'm supposed to be working!

Actually, now I'm working from home full time I was planning on taking over DS's cool loft room as my office. That might thwart DS's airbnb plans as it'll be quite crowded up there with the guests, me and my new man

@sunglassesonthetable - Adults provide for children, it would be very unusual to expect a child to contribute to the family pot from the age of 6, the parents are legally consisered responsible for maintenance payments. DS was given the use of just one bedroom and DSS was also given a room, but without having to make financial contributions towards it.
Regardless, the money wasn't given for his keep. OP was asked explicitly to invest the money on DS behalf so that he had the potential rewards of premium bonds and instead she used DS's money in place of investing her own. That choice can't be undone, but she can give him the income from the investment option she chose.

@cervixuser

I can't believe the fuck-wittery going on in this thread - OP you have done a really sensible thing with the money, all works out for everyone and I'd top up his £10,000 to 15,000 and let him do the Airbnb thing - you have a wonderful son probably because you sound like a wonderful mum

Someone suggesting a kid does Airbnb in his room in his parent’s house accuses others of fuckwittery! This thread keeps getting better.

Sorry stork, as far as I am concerned you had no right at all to spend the money on anything.
FIL gave it for a specific purpose. You should give the 18 year old their money plus any interest that they would have .
If you desperately needed it ( whiçh you did not ) you should have asked permission from FIL. Personally I think you should give him a considerable amount on top as well because
(A) you will benefit of the spare room as i don't suppose be will want to be at your house forever
And
(B) Even if you pay every penny back that does not distract from the initial problem that YOU KNOW that you stole his money.
Absolutely disgusting.

This is pretty disgusting OP. Plenty of people have given you an answer to the question you asked and you have just plain ignored them because you already have an idea of what you want to give your son, and it is not a fair amount in the slightest.

I've just checked, and my 'safer' investments have gone up over 170% in those 12 years. My standard Stocks and Shares ISA has gone up 330% in those 12 years. If you take that lower figure you should be giving your son just over £27k, but it's clear you don't want to do that.

I completely agree with other PP's who say your son has a serious case against you as does your FIL. If you want to avoid any of that you should be going over and above what you think is fair and giving him what is actually fair.

@Curioushorse

Meh. Yeah you did a bad thing- but are obviously undoing it.

So looking on Barclays, the best ISA I can see had an interest rate of 0.25. Upping that to 0.3% to atone for your guilt, say £10,300

Good luck!

But it’s not just about the interest.

It’s also about getting back a proportion of the increase in house value that came about thanks to the loft conversion. No way will OP do that…

This thread and responses is hilarious. The horror.

She invested his money and he's made bank! No different to investing in other ways you morons.

And no need to be so bloody rude either @comedycentral.

@Blossomtoes

And no need to be so bloody rude either *@comedycentral*.

Sorry Miss! I'll take my detention at lunch please 😁

FIL gave it for a specific purpose. You should give the 18 year old their money plus any interest that they would have

Have you read the thread?

And those of you who think I'm disgusting (and other name calling) for being a loving, devoted mother to a wonderful son for whom I have always tried to do the best, are pretty unpleasant yourselves.

It’s also about getting back a proportion of the increase in house value that came about thanks to the loft conversion. No way will OP do that…

The property that the DS is going to inherit .......

@ShoebillStork

You need to work out the value of the house before and after the loft conversion, calculate the change in value, work out the proportionate value allocated to the 10k and then add 12 years interest on top

God no, he's not getting that much! The value of the house has sky rocketted! I just need to work out how much it would be worth if I'd bunged it in a Junior ISA or something lame!

Actually this is exactly what you need to do to not be committing theft now. You made an investment into the house (sounds sensible). You need to repay the amount that that investment has made, not what something entirely different would have made. You made a very astute investment for your son , investing in property at a time when houses have been a terrific investment medium. Well done. Now pay him the money that your investment of his money has made for him.

@Sadiecow

It’s also about getting back a proportion of the increase in house value that came about thanks to the loft conversion. No way will OP do that…

The property that the DS is going to inherit .......

No inheritance is ever guaranteed.

@ShoebillStork probably best to tell FIL now as if he asks DS on his birthday how he feels about the present, and you tell them and there is any grumpiness then it could be a downer for DS on his 18th. If you do it in good time FIL will hopefully have got over himself and learned to appreiciate the choice you made and maybe even see the increase in your property value as a reward for the hard work of raising his grandson. In fact he ought to be grateful to you for giving him a grandson he actually likes as he clearly can't stand the other one. Your property increase is your little reward for that service. He can't argue with that can he !

@comedycentral

This thread and responses is hilarious. The horror.

She invested his money and he's made bank! No different to investing in other ways you morons.

Except he hasn't, because OP isn't willing to give him what the investment has actually made in the last 12 years, and instead wants to give him what he could have made if she'd done something entirely different.

That's the issue here.

and maybe even see the increase in your property value as a reward for the hard work of raising his grandson. In fact he ought to be grateful to you for giving him a grandson he actually likes as he clearly can't stand the other one. Your property increase is your little reward for that service. He can't argue with that can he !

I’m assuming this sarcasm @Thehouseofmarvels.