To be so ashamed of my husband causing a scene?

[Vaterinadf]

It was so horrendous. We have 2 DC, 4 and 5 months. Yesterday we couldn't be arsed cooking and our 4 year old has never been to a restaraunt so I suggested we go to the local Pizza Express for dinner. 'D'H whinged about money. He is always complaining about money. Yes things are tight but we are able to stretch to the occasional treat as we have around £150 spare each month, but DH always gets in a tiff about it. I'm not regulary hounding him for treats, but the occasional "Ah shall we just get a takeaway for tonight?" will subject me to a half an hour long rant about how hard he works and about how I waste all his money. I work part-time but am on maternity leave. He reluctantly agreed to go.

As soon as we get in and are sat down, the whinging starts. "It's way too expensive, I want to go somewhere else, come on" (I was BFing 5mo at this point and didn't fancy traipsing around town for somewhere else to eat). I firmly said no, and that the DC will need to be in bed as soon as we get home and I'm not spending time wandering around.

Then he's rude and demanding to the waitress who was literally only a teenager. She asks if we're ready to take our order and we say yes. There's a technical issue with the order taking system she's using and she says "One second, sorry." and DH does a loud, extremely obvious tut that he clearly intended for the waitress to hear. The technical issue was sorted in literally seconds and was an absolute non-issue, the tut was just obnoxious and unnessecary. We then noticed her and another waitress kept glancing over our table so we'd clearly been marked as 'problem' customers. I've worked in hospitality previously and I've found myself risk-assessing tables before, so I felt awful. I did not want to be 'that' table.

I take baby to the bathroom to be changed and come back and the food is being served. DH again continues to just be rude and blunt. The waitress doesn't do anything wrong so he doesn't make complaints but I heard him say "No." (without a thank you) when the waitress asked if he'd like anything else. I thought that was rude. He whinges the whole time while we are eating about the food, the service, the decor etc. I didn't get to have a word in edgeways. The idea of a casual chat over a meal seemed to be lost on him. It was tense and I hated it. Even our 4YO could barely say a word over the monologue.

The waitress ends up dropping a fork on the floor when collecting our empty plates and is extremely apologetic and clearly nervous. DH again tuts and says that he's found the service disgraceful and it's horrendous we weren't offered a high chair for baby (Baby is 5 months ffs, the high chair at home is still boxed up so he was just looking for anything to complain about! It was quite obvious that baby was too young for a highchair so of course we weren't asked.). We ask for the bill and I tell him I think he's been absolutely disgusting and I'm ashamed of him and tell him to go and get the car. He then leaves but starts whinging and being sarcastic, saying crap like "Sorry for breathing." He's gone by the time we get the bill, it's a different waitress to the one who served us. I go up to the one who served us, apologise profusely and give her a £10 tip.

We argue about it when we get home and then he started the pity party about how he is depressed. I'm not saying he makes up his depression, but he only talks about it when I'm upset with him for something. "It's my depression that makes me like this!" and yet he never seeks help. I would never, ever say he just uses depression as an excuse but surely it is now his responsibility to seek help? He's a completely unpleasant human being and I dread him coming home from work every day. He is not the man I married, who I loved. He was kind and loving. I mean it, so kind. Everybody told me I'd got a goodun with him. I miss that man so much. He changed after first DC but has been absolutely insufferable since our recent baby. I don't know what to do. I enjoy being at home during the day with my 2 little ones, and then once DH comes through the door suddenly there is an unbearable tension.

@Vaterinadf I think so many PP's have expressed themselves so well and described their feelings and experiences in a powerful way. It all resonates with so many women and what we experience- you are not alone.

I hope you're finding the thread helpful.

How're you doing and feeling?

It's bullying by proxy, I think.
He must know you'll be on eggshells in case he's rude, he must know it's horrible for your children too, but still he persists.
Frankly, I've spent money on lots of things I thought were a waste since I had a child.
Expensive trainers, "sliders" (plastic flip flops in other words) and sat through boring films and other activities.
It's part and parcel of being a family.

He sounds exactly like my ex. Absolutely misery guts with no respect for staff if you. Best thing I ever did was leave the bastard

Absolutely disgusted by the apologists in this thread. You think in FOUR years of this behaviour the OP has never asked what's wrong? I have never, and I repeat, never, met a woman who has left a man who behaves like this without trying every other option available. And I know a lot of women who are still with men like this.

As someone who thought I'd never end up in an abusive relationship (because my mother was in one in my formative years and it ruined all of our lives), I STILL managed to fall for this shit from a guy I loved. I spent years believing his depression explained his behaviour (despite being depressed myself and knowing for a fact that it doesn't cause you to treat others like shit), and gently encouraging him to get help, listening to him complain etc. I walked on eggshells, I felt it couldn't be abusive because it was just financial stress and feeling overworked (in fact, after I left I realised I actually did more than he did, and he spent more than I did, but he'd manipulated me into thinking it was the other way around). I told myself that this wasn't the real him, because he was completely different to who he was for the first 3 years we were together.

It was clear that he resented me, and eventually I couldn't bear his touch because of it. He then started guilt-tripping me for sex. I believed women who felt that "we all have sex sometimes when we don't feel like it, that's part of being in a relationship"... Until the night it became very clear-cut rape. I wish I'd recognised the early signs so that I could have gotten out before that happened. When I spoke to Victim Support, they asked if I walked on eggshells around him, dreaded him coming home - they are classic signs of being in an abusive relationship.

Is it possible his behaviour may improve if he gets help for depression? Yes. Is it likely? I'd say not, for the following reasons:

• he thinks of himself as a person separate from the family unit with his own money that he resents spending on them
• you dread him coming home everyday (i.e. the meal is not a rare incident)
• you said if you do something free like go to the beach, he just wants to go home
• the way he treats service staff
• the fact that he has already made it clear he has no intention of helping himself get better.

He does not deserve compassion from the people he is abusing in this way. He has none for his family, why should they have any for him?!

I am with a partner now who is depressed and constantly stressed about money, but he does not treat me like that. He may have grumpy days, and make a snippy comment even, but that is a rare occasion and the rest of his behaviour shows that those moments were genuinely just stress. (Not to mention he apologises for them).

Living with an abusive father and an abused mother is far more damaging to a child's prospects than divorced parents.

I think a PP has it right OP, he was never really a nice person; he just gave you that illusion while he reeled you in. Now you're more or less tied to him with your children he can let the "real" him show through.

My dad was tight with money and we had a miserable life with him. Its actually given me lifelong issues with money, I spend almost every spare penny I have and donate/give money away at the drop of a hat just not to be tight.

Oh and I've had depression on and off since my first baby was born 30 years ago - doesn't make me a rude arrogant ignorant controlling bastard though.

Best of luck with whatever you decide. You did a nice thing with the waitress.

OP I am so sorry for you and your little boy. Your DH’s behaviour is inexcusable, money worries or not. It looks like you don’t respect each other any more and IMO without that you can’t have love either. I think you’ve reached an impasse and need to decide if you can like each other again.

Hmm I was going to say he sounds stingy and not to argue about money in front of the kids. But he does sound I irritated which is something that comes from depression. Keep a closer eye on him and I suggest help him with budgeting. Instead of going out if he finds it stressful with 2 young kids and it can be for both parents, I suggest having a takeaway at home. Pizza express can be expensive. Order pizza from smaller takeaways which can be a lot cheaper.

He is the person who made it needlessly stressful.

What is he normally like when he doesn't get his way? Does he sulk and act out like this? This screams of wanting control rather than being depressed.

This is so sad :( Even when we were really, really poor we saved up to do fun things as a family. He sounds like miserable company. I (this is purely anecdotal) have found men's depression seems to express itself as snappiness, anger and a horrible mood whereas (again just my experience) women's depression seems to turn more inwards.

Your DH is being awful and depression isn't an excuse. Are you going to gave a proper talk to him about it?

No one is saying what dh did wasn't awful but op is asking for advice on how to help in this situation.

The dh acted in a disrespectful and immature way.

But in life I have faced , like everyone many, difficult problems. And I have LTB.
But LTB doesn't actually problem solve. It wasn't until I have faced my problems head in that I began to mature. And feel happy. INHO

Now I would mention that in some situations LTB is the only answer but I think in this one op can turn this around.

To think this will be easy would be setting op up for failure. It will take effort.

I've walked away because my dp would spend every last Penny.

But I would not force someone into doing something they didn't want to do either - that's abuse surely

There is always middle ground and in this case I think op and dh can achieve this with work.

Nothing worth while comes easy. And I would like to see both op and her dh happy together.

And like pp said way back as the children grow it does get easier.

I am afraid your husband was never really that kind and wonderful man. He started being nasty as soon as you were tied down with a baby and he ramped it up with the second child. Kind people carry on being kind even in difficult circumstances.

Who knows if he has depression? What I do know is that if you stay with your husband your children will almost certainly grow up with some anxiety disorder. Your 4 year old even knows he has to be quiet when your husband is bullying a teenage girl because he's so worried about money!

Out of interest, how was he raised? Bully father?

Break the cycle and leave as soon as you can. You can't save your husband but you can save yourself and your children.

@MrsTerryPratchett

He ruined the meal so you will never ask him to go again.

That's not depression, that manipulation.

Ultimatum or divorce.

And good job making it right with the poor servers.

This ^

Get out from this relationship before it damages your children.

By the way for Robin I've been happily married for close to 30 years to a geninely kind husband. Neither of us is perfect and we've had disagreements from time to time. I wouldn't have ever put up with the behavour of the OP's husband though and neither should the OP.

@CinnamonJellyBeans

yep, cross posted with Robin. The overall responsibility for finance can be crippling.

Oh fucking diddums, their second child is only 5 months old, the OP is still on mat leave, FFS. And working part time. He may be depressed, but fundamentally he sounds like a fucking wanker, regardless of his mental health.

I feel for you OP, not because I've been in your shoes precisely, but because for a large part of my long relationship with ExP I felt and acted like the behaviours you are describing in your DH.

No children to complicate things in our relationship, but I suffered quite profound depressions on and off for years which dramatically altered my general behaviour despite being a reasonably easy-going and jovial person for the most part when I wasn't ill. The problem with depression is that it can also totally rob you of your objectivity, meaning you totally lack insight into just how dissonant, toxic, and corrosive your own behaviour is with regard to it's impact on your relationship.

I was feeling a bit at a loss after a difficult point in my career. The depressions ramped up, and I was beginning to feel like I was stuck in a cycle of drudgery in my relationship as well. Everything became a drag, a chore, unpleasant, and made me react in the way that you'd expect any perfectly healthy person to react if those were the circumstances they found themselves in persistently. The problem was, the things I was doing weren't actually unpleasant or dreary, the depressive state I was in made them appear so to me, so I was usually irascible, on edge, anxious, prickly, and had a habit of throwing totally unjustifiable toddler tantrums.

Fortunately when I had a bit of an epiphany and realised I was actually suffering from a diagnosable illness, it meant that I regained a bit of insight into my own feelings and behaviours, and was able to make lifestyle changes to the end that my depressions lifted and lessened in frequency somewhat, but in truth the damage to my relationship was already done by that point, and eventually, many years later we split.

I think that in hindsight there were some elements of the relationship that were exacerbating my depression and poor behaviours at the time, but it certainly wasn't the underlying cause of it, and it's emphatically clear to me that I would never have recovered to the extent I have had I taken your DH's view that I was never going to make any attempt to address my illness.

I think the only thread of hope here is that he's acknowledging that he is actually depressed, but if he's not willing to set about doing something to enable recovery, then I can only see his behaviour, and your unhappiness, getting worse.

Time for a showdown IMO. Tell him exactly how unhappy you are and why, but I'd gently suggest that you try not to do so in an adversarial manner or one that implies he is to 'blame' for things. He's not likely to react well to that if he is in the grip of a depression, because he'll lack the insight to rationalise it and realise that you are aware it's the illness and not actually the 'real him', and likely become ultra-defensive and/or throw a tantrum. It's really difficult, I know, but he has to be spurred into a lightbulb moment somehow if he's going to grasp that what is going on isn't acceptable and can not continue.

Your husband could be Brad Pitt, and he would still be unattractive.

I think pizza express was a weird thing to take a stand on. It’s reasonably nice, but not somewhere to go if your tired, if you are dragging children around, or if you are worried about money.

He made it absolutely clear he did want to go. When he got there he asked to leave, but you were firm’.

He hated every minute, was thoroughly miserable, and extremely anxious about the cost.

I’m understand how he felt

Haven’t RTFT just the first 100 posts.

I have depression/anxiety and I’m not a twat with other people.

However, did he really want DC? Did he and you both agree to you being PT? When I was younger we rarely went out, my DM was SAHM and my dad worked FT. It was a bit different in that there weren’t really all-day nurseries and such back then, so not the same childcare options there are now.

Strangely, I was talking to DH about this yesterday; I had a real phobia of eating out when I was younger as I knew my DF would be annoyed if I didn’t eat everything as it was “a waste of money”. So I always used to feel really anxious in case I ordered something I didn’t like. My DF is much more relaxed now that he is retired and hasn’t got the pressure of anymore of being the main earner for a family.

My DM did go to work when I was 11 and my DF was made redundant, they then ran a business from when I was late teens.

Do you think he was being rude and complaining to try and get money off the bill?

He sounds like a right knob.

This sounds awful OP. I had a very similar situation right down to the second baby. My situation peaked last summer after the children had been at home for 4 weeks ( 8 and 4). The atmosphere with Mr grumpy was unbearable. I had long given up trying to do things like day trips together- he spoilt them and hated meals out. He was depressed and wouldn’t seek help.
I gave him an ultimatum saying that I deserved to be happy and would not bring up children in this atmosphere. I sent him away For a solo holiday so I could have happy U.K. days out with the kids. Before he came home he had booked sessions with a therapist , GP to start meds and been thought out his selfishness.
Amazingly 2 months later I had the better version of the man I married and we are a very happy family. He frequently thanks me for saving out family and not just walking away.
There is hope but you have to be firm and not except this. You would be better alone than with him if this is the best he can be .

I can't really say anything different from other posters but for me, I'd be telling him he either gets help aand changes his ways or the marriage is done. Putting you and your feelings aside (which are of course important), you've mentioned the impact on your eldest child a few times. I'd be motivated to insist change or leave purely because he seems like he knows he's being brought up in a pretty toxic environment - I appreciate you do everything you can to make life fun for him but if your DH isn't playing ball, family life will never be great, will it?

I am starting to think he did it on purpose to put me off wanting to do it again.

BINGO!

@Vaterinadf, your husband is a bully.
The primary targets of his bullying are you and your children.
The waitress was just collateral damage he was willing to accomplish in order to punish you for standing up to him.

Depression isn't a get out of jail free card.
He doesn't have the right to inflict this appalling behaviour on you or your children.
He doesn't have the right to use the waitress to make his point.

You need to ask yourself if he behaves like this at work, with colleagues or clients or customers, or if he only directs it at women and other people he considers to have lower status than himself.

Goodness he sounds awful. "Depressed" eh? How convenient. Seems it's being used as a weapon to control you by a miserable, miserly, misogynist. He was angry with you for daring to go against his wishes and took it out on a teenage girl - that says everything you need to know about his character IMO.

I have a 4yo and a 3yo. It's awful that your DS is being denied fun experiences because you're too afraid of his father's reaction. The zoo, petting farms, eating out etc. is a semi-regular part of my children's lives. We're far from rich but it's prioritised.

You sound lovely and I think you'd feel a weight lift without this horrible man ruining your DCs childhood.

@SandysMam

Leave him. He sounds horrendous. If a period apart doesn’t convince him to sort himself out he never will. He needs a good kick up the arse.

This 👆