Manager/ess

[whatnow41]

To be instantly put off a job advert when the job title is advertised as Manager/ess?

What century is it? And what else does the company have 'old fashioned values' about?

There's nothing wrong with the word manageress. Why should the male version be the acceptable default?

In all my time in the working world, including at managerial level, I've never seen an advert for 'manageress' - never even knew it was a thing. Far from assuming they were female friendly, I'd assume they were a ropey employer with dodgy values.

I can only assume that those that think it's okay don't have jobs? 'Manageress' is just not a thing, 'manager' is a neutral term and is not interpreted as in any way masculine in the working world.

@Alltheprettyseahorses

There's nothing wrong with the word manageress. Why should the male version be the acceptable default?

How about not gendering it at all? Manager, comedian, actor, etc. no matter someone's sex. Let's get rid of all gendered nouns.

Definition of manager "a person responsible for controlling or administering an organization or group of staff." There's nothing male about it.

Manageress was only ever used in lowly female dominated workplaces

@AutoGroup

Definition of manager "a person responsible for controlling or administering an organization or group of staff." There's nothing male about it.

Manageress was only ever used in lowly female dominated workplaces

That’s not quite true. Manager is one of those terms that has been long associated with men. Similar to soldier, doctor or professor. Yes it is neutrally worded, but even today you ask a primary school child to draw any of the above- manager, soldier, doctor, professor they will 9 in 10 draw a male picture. The same if you ask the to draw a nurse, teacher or nanny....they’re going to draw a female picture.

This is about associations we are socialised to make between titles and sex. Not about the book definition. Which while gender neutral, is still using the English male gender of “er” or “or” instead of the female gendering in English of “ess”. In English, there is no neutral gender, male gender is always used as dual purpose for neutral and male.

Nope, wouldn't bother me

@RodiganReed

I can only assume that those that think it's okay don't have jobs? 'Manageress' is just not a thing, 'manager' is a neutral term and is not interpreted as in any way masculine in the working world.

What a strange assumption to make. Think you just want to insult people of a different opinion than you.

How about not gendering it at all? Manager, comedian, actor, etc. no matter someone's sex. Let's get rid of all gendered nouns.

For all jobs except actress I agree. No-one is going to employ a male when they want a female main character. Their sex is absolutely linked to the roles they are offered. An actress calling herself an actor is not going to be suddenly offered Othello unless the director wants to play with the gender roles and then they will be wanting an actress (whatever they call themselves). That is very different to a manager where sex is irrelevant to their ability to do the job.

@DaydreamingDreamer
How about not gendering it at all? Manager, comedian, actor, etc. no matter someone's sex. Let's get rid of all gendered nouns.

Manager, comedian, actor are all the male versions. The female nouns are manageress, comedienne, and actress.

The problem with English is you have no truly gender neutral nouns.

Recognising that women exist? How rare, obviously an organisation that has not used Stonewall recently.

I would think them very old-fashioned. The only person I have ever heard refer to someone as a manageress is my 90 year old grandmother, and it infuriates me every time she does.

Hmmm. "The doctoress will see you now."

I agree OP, it's ridiculous. All they need to do to attract female applicants to make that clear with "we are looking for a person..." etc etc. Everyone knows was manageress means. It means less.

Manageress makes me think of a horrible hotel owner’s wife in Blackpool or somewhere hiring 17 year old live-in chambermaids. In the 70s.

The problem with English is you have no truly gender neutral nouns.

Scientist, actuary, lawyer?

@HeartvsBrain

Sorry, I don't really see the problem either. Do you think that they should just advertise for a manager then, and not make it obvious to us more old fashioned woman, that they are actually looking for either a man or a woman? They probably legally have to word it like that, as most jobs have to be open to both men and women, and using the manager/ess formula surely does that very simply? Or is it that you think it should have said " male or female manager required", or "female manager or male manager required"?

I presume that the name "wo man" is also insulting, and that referring to the Homosapien species as "Man" is also not acceptable? I am not trying to be sarky or anything like that, I just truly don't understand the problem (just like I don't understand that actresses nowadays want to be called actors as well, I just don't get it)? (and) As a woman who is proud to be a woman, I don't see how adding "ress" to masculine terms, is degrading to us - as wo men we are actually adding to a male term, because we women do add to the Homosapien species, we are a positive! In all seriousness I can't get het-up about such terminology, but if I really should be, can someone please explain to me, why?

It should have just said “manager”, make or female was a given.

How old fashioned are you? I have been working for thirty years and I don’t ever recall a woman who is a manager being called a “manageress”.

*male

I'd not even notice, definitely wouldn't be annoyed. I don't mind acknowledging difference between male and female though, unlike the rest of the UK seems to these days. I think I am old-fashioned though.

@HeartvsBrain

Sorry, I don't really see the problem either. Do you think that they should just advertise for a manager then, and not make it obvious to us more old fashioned woman, that they are actually looking for either a man or a woman? They probably legally have to word it like that, as most jobs have to be open to both men and women, and using the manager/ess formula surely does that very simply? Or is it that you think it should have said " male or female manager required", or "female manager or male manager required"?

I presume that the name "wo man" is also insulting, and that referring to the Homosapien species as "Man" is also not acceptable? I am not trying to be sarky or anything like that, I just truly don't understand the problem (just like I don't understand that actresses nowadays want to be called actors as well, I just don't get it)? (and) As a woman who is proud to be a woman, I don't see how adding "ress" to masculine terms, is degrading to us - as wo men we are actually adding to a male term, because we women do add to the Homosapien species, we are a positive! In all seriousness I can't get het-up about such terminology, but if I really should be, can someone please explain to me, why?

Don’t be ridiculous. Do you think that women who work in corporate environments call themselves product manageresses, or marketing manageresses, or IT manageresses? The term is completely outdated and rarely heard, and hasn’t been for at least 25 years, probably longer. Frankly, any woman who would think she wasn’t eligible to apply for a job because the title was “manager” would probably lack the intellectual capacity to do it anyway.

It really does not bother me. I also don't mind "authoress", "waitress" or "actress" to name a few.

Manager just means person who manages other people. Who's your line manageress? I work in manageressment. My job title is office manageress.

Ridiculous. Manageress isn't a word any more.

Glad most people are on the same page as me. I think for it to be in the job advert, as the title of the role, shows that either the organisation itself, or the hiring manager, has no respect for women and is not considered truly equal. You would always be starting from a place of being judged as lesser. Very telling, when you need to make judgements about whether you want to apply for a job or work for a company. All you can go off is the job advert and their website. Big red flag for me.

I work in manageressment.

How did you come up with that? Isn’t the word “management” not “managerment”...so even though manager/ess both exist, there is no managerment to convert to feminine version.

@sbhydrogen

It really does not bother me. I also don't mind "authoress", "waitress" or "actress" to name a few.

Same here. And I think it a bit sad that the masculine/male versions are becoming the only version in usage. It is erasure of a whole section of English language to drop the feminine/female versions of words. It is like saying the women in those roles are considered honorary men. Pretty soon, we will be addressing women as “sir”.....

@Alltheprettyseahorses

There's nothing wrong with the word manageress. Why should the male version be the acceptable default?

No, the problem is in assuming that the default manager is male.

What's a female CEO supposed to be called? A chief executivess? A chief executive officeress? The mind boggles.

I'm frankly astonished that people are defending the term manageress in this day and age. I thought everyone now understood that a manager could be male or female.