Aibu to think it was unfair to name the security guards who made mistakes in the Manchester arena bombings

[Newpuppymummy]

They were young security guards and made huge mistakes but I do think it was very unfair to name them. I think one of them was 19 at the time. I wonder about the training they were given. they have to live with what they did or didn’t do for the rest of their lives. The police who went for a two hour food break to a kebab house 5 miles away were not named

@Szyz2020

Argh. Just tried to find where I read £4.24 and must have imagined it. But min wage at the time for an 18 year old would have been under £6ph.

Probably because he was actually an 'apprentice' or there were elements of his shift that wasn't counted towards his working hours, eg if he had to sign in at one location and then travel to another. Travel in this sort of job is rarely paid for either time or expenses.

The whole industry (entertainment that is, not security, I can't speak for that) relies on an enormous amount of goodwill and free labour, DPs seriously considering not going back or at least significantly change what types of jobs he does - some pay quite well, others absolutely appallingly, as low as £50 for a day's work because they don't pay travel time or expenses, just time on site, but they may have 3/4 hours travel to the venue.

@Gladimnotcampinginthisweather

Sandgrown yes he probably would have detonated the bomb sooner, but if it took place in a quiet area before the public were leaving the area the number of dead and injured might well have been lower. We have no way of knowing.

Yeah but they would have been dead. And it's pretty sad that that's widely regarded as a desirable outcome. Our society's ability to divide people into the deserving and the disposable is really fucking depressing.

As a mum of young men I cannot imagine how this accusation will have screwed up their MH ...bloody shocking !

Yanbu.

@romdowa

Totally wrong , no matter what mistakes they made, they didn't bomb anybody that day. The fault lays solely at the bombers feet at the end of the day.

Yes exactly. I get fed up with everyone trying to blame everyone else. The person at fault was the murderous bomber. Nobody else.

And yes it was outrageous to name anyone at all, let alone someone who was a teenager at the time.

Exactly what I said, disgusting of them to name them and plaster it all over TV. They were just kids themselves. Yes they should have alerted a manager, and then it would have been on them but.... They're kids, poorly trained kids. That footage of the one lad doing a little dance as he walks away, totally unnecessary to show it. It wasn't their fault. They're trying to get us to feel anger towards them, instead of the people actually responsible.

@Bloomsbury45

The people responsible for the Manchester bombing were the bomber, those who helped him make the bomb and those who radicalised him.

Exactly this. The security weren't to know; it was chance he detonated it inside, and not outside with the crowds leaving, for example. Lets not shift the blame from the nutter with the explosives.

@sandgrown

We hear many times of young men of a certain appearance being targeted by police but the bomber was able to hang around the station for 2 hours without being questioned? I originally felt the young security guards should have asked for assistance when alerted by the member of the public but whatever they did would not have stopped the individual. He would have simply detonated the bomb sooner.

Yes exactly and probably killing the security guards in the process.

Mistakes were clearly made and it must be heartbreaking for the families of victims to hear how things might have been different. But naming individuals is disgusting. Not sure how they recover from that.

It’s wrong.
It wasn’t his/their fault.
Deflecting blame, there’s only one person that did wrong and that was the man with bomb.

I think this is very hard on the individuals involved and really hope it does not lead to any reprisals etc.

The only possible advantage I can see to this is that it might make the next person think 'I don't want to be named and shamed for failing in my duties, I'm not going to let that be me and I will step up and do my job responsibly.'

Too often in reports like these people are shielded by reference to 'collective failings', or problems with systems etc and it can feel like there is no real accountability.

It's frustrating, however, that those who are named in this report are young, likely poorly trained and not the bigwigs that seem to get away with being named in other cases. For eg. Will any individual names from the companies involved in Grenfell Tower refurbishment be made public?

With the greatest respect OP have you read the report or just the media coverage? The guards were named in the report because they were named when they gave evidence. The Chair made it clear that any errors in their conduct was a result of inadequate training by Showsec, a security company that held itself out to be experts in counter terrorism. The Chair also made it clear who was responsible for the attack saying:
"The responsibility for the events of 22nd May 2017 lies with Salman and Hashem Abedi, his younger brother. I have had in mind while writing this Report, ... that responsibility rests with them. This volume of my Report and those which follow must nonetheless examine the actions of others. I must decide whether more could and should have been done to stop SA detonating his bomb on 22nd May and to respond to the detonation when it occurred."

Thank you NoodleNooNoo
It is true that the whole blame lies with the bombers.

@Gladimnotcampinginthisweather

At the time of the Manchester Arena bombing it would have cost around £200 for SIA training plus £200 for the actual licence. Not exactly peanuts for an 18 year old.

Job centres will pay for this as they see it as an 'easy' way to get people, young men especially, in work.

Accepting that there were failures ( and the most blatant was the CCTV blind spot), an enquiry cannot expect that unarmed individuals, whether security guards or police, should be expected to commit suicide in order to reduce the death toll.

They should have identified the issue, then waited for armed police to attend and deal. There is no way of knowing if the suspect would have actively sought to find victims if he realised that he had been spotted; the enquiry claim that the death toll would have been reduced is an unevidenced guess.

The report can be found here:

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/994604/CCS0321126370-002_MAI_Report_Volume_ONE_Web_Accessible__1___002_.pdf

@Traveller the report states that if the guards had followed up the concerns of the member of public at 22.15 by reporting to their superior, he could have then liaised with SMG who could have closed access from Arena to the City Room within a matter of minutes. 11 of those who died walked through the doors to the City Room at after 22.30 so would not have been in the City Room if it had been closed at the time of detonation at 22.31

YANBU I really feel for them.

None of this was their fault. The security firm should be named and told to give far better training.

Looks like a litany of errors so far - kebabs, poor ambulance staff management, poor training of security.

I think the government should train all citizens in emergency first aid (battle field scenarios - which are similar to this sort of event - where simple things like stemming blood loss using pressure points on groin/upper arm arteries, direct pressure and elevating limbs can give ambulance crews a bit more time to save life) and in spotting where behaviours may trigger a warning - trusting your instinct.

At the end of it all, the bomber and those who radicalised him are to blame.

I read some of the stories of some of those killed last night and it made me so sad.

The world robbed of such a lot of joy and promise...the lass who wanted to be a children's nurse...

Coverage on the BBC radio news didn’t name the people concerned but clearly suggested there was blame to be apportioned to security staff.

It’s really easy to type a few words for a news report without thinking about the reality.

There’s always the risk of an accusation of racism.
There’s also the case of Jean-Charles de Menezis - an innocent man shot dead by bungling Police for which no-one has been held accountable.
Of course it is very very hard to get these things right.

Just reading about it and two members of the public expressed concern. So sad.

I was just googling this and this came up! I thought I can’t be the only one who thinks it is so unfair on the security guards. Clearly and thank god I’m not . It’s not their fault it’s the terrorist. How must they feel now, they will be thinking that the world think they are blame . They will be going through a roller coaster of emotions. They will have PTSD from the event as it is! It could lead them to harm themselves who knows what this will do to them mentally. If they read this I don’t blame you, please don’t blame yourselves. Seek help and support if you are struggling. The terrorist is to blame .

TBH even the kebab eating officers weren’t to blame - ( not saying going off for 2 hours is right) but it was the terrorist and his helpers who are to blame . Why does society always want to blame someone rather than the the actual perpetrators. I’m not saying lessons could not have been learnt I agree , but to name and shame for someone else’s act of terror, that’s shameful!
All those who helped the security, ambulance staff, members of the public, the police etc….. please don’t blame yourselves. You are all amazing.
Of course my whole heart goes out to the victims and their families - I hope they find some peace x

MrsHa yes that is true.

@NoodleNooNoo I haven’t read the report and I’m glad to hear the judge said they were not to blame. But I still think there was no need for the press to release their names and the way it has been reported I feel like the implication is there that they are at least partly to blame.

YANBU.