Aibu to think it was unfair to name the security guards who made mistakes in the Manchester arena bombings

[Newpuppymummy]

They were young security guards and made huge mistakes but I do think it was very unfair to name them. I think one of them was 19 at the time. I wonder about the training they were given. they have to live with what they did or didn’t do for the rest of their lives. The police who went for a two hour food break to a kebab house 5 miles away were not named

Agreed - appalling

@Gladimnotcampinginthisweather

At the time of the Manchester Arena bombing it would have cost around £200 for SIA training plus £200 for the actual licence. Not exactly peanuts for an 18 year old.

A lot of the larger security companies pay the initial fees and then the security guard pays them back out of their wages. And then the individual holds the badge for the 3 years it's valid. So it works in their favour, it's usually named in a "perk" on the application process.

We hear many times of young men of a certain appearance being targeted by police but the bomber was able to hang around the station for 2 hours without being questioned? I originally felt the young security guards should have asked for assistance when alerted by the member of the public but whatever they did would not have stopped the individual. He would have simply detonated the bomb sooner.

Agree
Security guards are not counter terrorism experts FFS

I imagine BTP take the lead because the Arena is within Manchester Victoria station.

Will they name members of the security services who didn't properly act on intelligence about the bomber?

It is possible they got the licence funded by the company they worked for if they were actual employees, but a lot of people working venues are freelance, and would have funded their own licence, as DS did when he was 18.

Sandgrown yes he probably would have detonated the bomb sooner, but if it took place in a quiet area before the public were leaving the area the number of dead and injured might well have been lower. We have no way of knowing.

Yanbu, they had not committed a crime, the police officers do not appear.to have been named, yet their failings seem worse and expectations of them should be much higher than a 19 yo security guard who would not have much training.

I agree OP I think it’s awful and irresponsible naming the security guards. They are young, inexperienced and poorly paid.

@Gladimnotcampinginthisweather

Sandgrown yes he probably would have detonated the bomb sooner, but if it took place in a quiet area before the public were leaving the area the number of dead and injured might well have been lower. We have no way of knowing.

Would you be willing to be blown up to save others?

Security guards are there for dealing with overexcited teenagers, the odd fight or take someone to the first aid station, not confront a potential bomber and being blown to bits......

Didn't the government, in the form of the security services allow this guy to go between Libya and the UK ?
The UK helped bomb Libya back to the stone age and then put nothing in its place, allowing ISIS to reform there, much like we did in Iraq.
The two youngsters killed on London bridge, were also failed by the security services, who didn't even tell the probation services that the prisoner on release was still a danger.

But an apology seems to be all that we get and a shift of blame.

@Gladimnotcampinginthisweather

I wondered why British Transport Police were in charge of Policing. Apparently it is because the Manchester Arena is on the footprint of the station.

The arena is actually attached to Victoria station. You can get off a tram or train, go up a flight of steps and there’s a connecting ‘corridor’ or area leading to exits from the arena. This is where the bomb was detonated. So if you have a tram or a train ticket you can access that area as your ticket will open barriers. I used to walk through it twice a day, it feels like a bit if of a no mans land, not really part of the station, not really part of the arena. It should have been subject to much greater scrutiny.

@Gladimnotcampinginthisweather

It is possible they got the licence funded by the company they worked for if they were actual employees, but a lot of people working venues are freelance, and would have funded their own licence, as DS did when he was 18.

Was it geoamey or g4s at the MEN, I'm not sure. I know g4s do it, pay for the badge I mean. They can choose the shifts and venues but they're contracted to the company.

DH works with some of the guards who were on duty in the Men that night. He was in town working as security when the bomb went off and heard it, but wasn't nearby, thankfully.

The police officers certainly have been named, picture of one of them in the Times today

The 18 year old security guard was paid £4.24 an hour

I agree they shouldn’t have been named.

The BTP officers who have been named, that’s a whole other issue. 2 hour breaks and ignored everything they’d been told to do about staggering those breaks and being in the arena from 9pm. Absolute and blatant dereliction of duty. How that officer had the gall to accept a medal - I know she was brave in the event but beforehand when it was just another dull evening shift patrolling they couldn’t be bothered to do their jobs could they.

Totally agree OP - I was thinking this yesterday when I was listening to the news.

The security guards were very young and ill-prepared. I think they will really suffer with the guilt of this event - they are victims too .

IMO it's the bombers who bear the guilt and shame of the calculated mass murder of children.

They're only being named as they're giving evidence. Not in a blaming way. I agree it's not fair, though. £4.24 an hour!?

It's very sad, the number of chances they had to challenge the bomber - but if they had, he'd probably still have set off the bombs. You need properly trained bomb security police officers, not barely trained teens with not even a radio to raise the alarm in a situation like this.

Argh. Just tried to find where I read £4.24 and must have imagined it. But min wage at the time for an 18 year old would have been under £6ph.

I wouldn't expect any unarmed person to confront a suicide bomber.

@BarbarianMum

I wonder what would have happened to them if they had challenged the bomber? I suspect their names would be inscribed on a small plaque somewhere and they'd be totally forgotten.

Exactly

YANBU

The bomber is at fault.

The bomber took advantage of a security company that employ inexperienced young people without correct security training. Not the security staff's fault at all. Should not be named. Name the chief executive of the security company and the people at the top running the show at the time.

The police have training but apparently chatting away together was more important than doing their actual job. Name them.

@Szyz2020

The 18 year old security guard was paid £4.24 an hour

I agree they shouldn’t have been named.

The BTP officers who have been named, that’s a whole other issue. 2 hour breaks and ignored everything they’d been told to do about staggering those breaks and being in the arena from 9pm. Absolute and blatant dereliction of duty. How that officer had the gall to accept a medal - I know she was brave in the event but beforehand when it was just another dull evening shift patrolling they couldn’t be bothered to do their jobs could they.

Yep

Would you be prepared to be blown up to save others?
I am not suggesting that but if they had had fully functioning radios they should have notified their superiors, or even the Police directly. That is another issue to lay at the door of the security company.
The company is called Showsec and they still have contracts for large arenas. Read the comments online from employees and it looks as though very little has changed.

@Gladimnotcampinginthisweather

Would you be prepared to be blown up to save others? I am not suggesting that but if they had had fully functioning radios they should have notified their superiors, or even the Police directly. That is another issue to lay at the door of the security company. The company is called Showsec and they still have contracts for large arenas. Read the comments online from employees and it looks as though very little has changed.

So they report a man acting odd, what do you think they would be told to do? Unless your armed, then no one can be expected to challenge a bomber.

Prevention is better than cure, the security services let those poor people down.

That young guy who said he was thought the bomber was suspicious, but was scared of being accused of racism is correct. He would have been accused of racism had he flagged his concerns and nothing happened.

@Gladimnotcampinginthisweather

Would you be prepared to be blown up to save others? I am not suggesting that but if they had had fully functioning radios they should have notified their superiors, or even the Police directly. That is another issue to lay at the door of the security company. The company is called Showsec and they still have contracts for large arenas. Read the comments online from employees and it looks as though very little has changed.

The police, especially the transport police, don't turn up in a timely manner. There aren't enough of them. You can notify everyone, supervisors, line managers etc, it's just put down as a person of interest to watch/follow, and it won't make the police arrive any more swiftly.

My DH was waiting with on an extremely agitated, violent man a few months ago, for well over an hour. Most victims of assault give up and go home before the police arrive whilst waiting with the security officers. It's a shame but it's the way it is while the police are so dreadfully underfunded.