Aibu-Prayer in Florida

[Britishmumspelledmom]

I am British so is DH but we both live in the US (Florida) with our kids. DS is 14 and DD is 10 we are all non religious and prayer is never something that has come up. However, Ron Desantis (the governor) has now signed a law requiring all schools to have a 1-2 minute silence every day so students can pray if they want. They say if not religious they can just remain quiet. Aibu to be annoyed about this as it feels like DS and DD are being treated as less important that their religious students. Aibu?

@Wakeupin2022 my school was just like this. (Catholic). We had daily prayers, and mass on feast days. It was made very clear to my parents. And it was basically, do t come here if you don't want that. Which is fair enough.

I'd be every bit as annoyed as you are OP. Coming from De Santis, this is clearly nothing to do with giving ppl headspace, it's a cynical act of religious populism. If he wanted to give people breathing space, he could do something about all the Floridians who work 2-3 jobs with no security.

But pragmatically, I think the best you can do is to use this as a teaching moment about separation of church and state, secularism and tolerance. A pp suggested showing your children how to mediate, that sounds like a good way to use the time.

People can pray at home

This is cynical pandering

On the surface it seems reasonable but the motivations are very suspect

YABU my DC goes to a religious school, they have prayer numerous times throughout the day, if your not religious you're asked to remain silent, not a problem, its 2 minutes!

Has anyone mentioned the boiled frog yet?

Seems apt

I agree @Itsafineday

teach them meditation and relaxation?

They can pray not to be victims of mass shootings, I suppose.

I dare say if British MNers fully understood the political subtext of this then you wouldn't be so dismissive. "Prayer in schools" has been a political flashpoint for decades. This is a stepping stone to putting worship more explicitly into the curriculum, into clubs & activities etc. That's the point of it. It isn't like American kids get open-minded multi-faith religious education that pupils get in English schools: it's meant as allowing opportunities for indoctrination to have any faith over no faith and Jesus specifically over other prophets.

Why OP is talking about "left out" I dunno, because that isn't the problem with what's going on in FL. The issue of prayer in schools is meant as a cultural identity proclamation, not a simple "quiet reflection" time.

@lljkk

Yes

I see some people here get it.

@GorekyPark The firewall does exist in some parts of the US, I'm from one of them. For example New York City does not let church groups use school space on the weekends because it would associate certain faiths with the school. Just an example of how seriously some areas do take it. You can't generalise the whole US on this issue.

And I'm not focusing on the wrong issue, I'm focusing on the wider issue of religion in schools and this is just the latest example. I don't think we should ignore the less odious policies just because there are worse examples, like teaching creationism in schools. It's all part of the same fight.

And yes, this is a very old issue. School prayer always gets stoked up by the right when Democrats are in power. It's culture war BS.

I hope the Satanic Temple get involved here, they're great at pushing back when religion gets enmeshed with the State.

If prayer is that important to these kids, it can be done at home. It doesn't need to feature in the school day.

Me and my Jewish friend used to have to walk out of assembly in the UK to avoid prayer. THAT was shit.

This is just some wanker trying to get around the US separation of Church and State. Tell your kids it's a quiet act of revolution to meditate instead.

In the U.S. context, this is all about providing support to (and curry favour with) right-wing Christian voters and has absolutely nothing to do with free expression of religion or whatever else DeSantis claims. The U.S. has a strong tradition of the separation of church and state. The "moment of silence" laws that exist in some states are meant to crack the door open for more overt school-sponsored prayer. Fortunately, the Supreme Court banned that many years ago, so the movement for school prayer should go nowhere ultimately (though the current Court has swung far to the right, sadly). But I absolutely understand your concerns.

Oops typo. Should read *currying favour.

Uh, welcome to America? (specifically, "the South") shrug

Signed,
An American Who Moved Abroad

I’m very atheist. I encourage my children to take part in all the religious stuff at school, Diwali , Eid , Christian stuff etc . I think it promotes tolerance and understanding in all faiths and cultures. I love going to a nearby Buddhist temple which is stunning and they are so welcoming . You don’t have to believe a particular faith to appreciate it and learn about it. And for those who’s faith is important the opportunity to pray at school is great. Those who don’t believe should be supportive and as PP suggested quiet reflection or something else constructive like mental maths or perhaps thinking up some poetry or song lyrics .

www.washingtonpost.com/education/2021/06/24/florida-intellectual-freedom-law-mandates-viewpoint-surveys/

Apparently teaching about racism is indoctrination, but pushing prayer isn't.

DeSantis is a nasty creep, but in this case YA (probably) BU.

I grew up in the US and am old enough to remember the days when prayer in schools was first ruled unconstitutional. We were invited to participate in “a moment of silence”. No one knew who silently prayed and who didn’t so there is no way your children will be treated as different because they don’t silently pray (unless they are actively disruptive).

We were also required to pledge allegiance to the flag. As a young teenager I turned my back and pledged allegiance to the opposite wall. No teacher paid any attention (but that wasn’t Florida!)

I don’t think you would have grounds to complain about a minute or two of silence, but I would monitor it closely, ask your kids what is going on, and not be afraid to make a fuss if there is the tiniest bit of a slide from the moment of silence toward religious activity in the classroom. That is unlawful.

I agree it's not about the two minute 'mindfulness' or prayer. It's a highly political move in favour of one particular side of the culture war. Old issue in the US as many have pointed out but really a timely message to the ultra conservative right. Now that Trump is gone, they're looking for their next champion and Florida is strategically important.

@knittingaddict

You've chosen to live in the US and in the US you have chosen to live in Florida. What did you expect?

The Evangelical Christian influence is massive in the US. They would never elect a president who claimed to have no Christian faith and because of that hypocrisy is strong over there.

Having seem how racist, misogynist and anti science large swaths of America is I would never visit again. let alone live there. I'm sure most people will think I'm daft for saying that, but it's how I feel. Having seen the dark underbelly I can't un-see it.

I'm a Christian, by the way, but a Christian by choice.

I personally would have expected that the prevailing laws keeping religion out of US state/public schools would have sufficed.

Apparently not, though. And inevitably, somebody will find it essential to make a racket with praying during the 'silent' session. It's taken a long time, but seems as though they've finally managed to get where they want.

I actually think this is a good idea. Whether religion/contemplation/mindfulness, you need some time everyday to reflect.

A lot of people go through life without having time away from noise.

DS has to go to abbey during the week. He wasn’t too happy to start with then I pointed out how beautiful and historic a building it was (and he was lucky to get into areas that visitors couldn’t), and how it offered a small, precious amount of time of calm when he could contemplate, meditate or just relax and enjoy/appreciate the surroundings.

Americans and religion. Ugh.

Hmm. My non-religious parents sent me to a CofE primary school just because that was the local school. It meant that Christianity played a part in my schooling but only 4-5 of my classmates had actively religious families, and none of us have grown up to be religious.

If anything it’s just a first-hand education in other people’s beliefs which can be useful for empathy. I can honestly tell you I have never ever believed in a god despite having been exposed to religion from a young age

It’s made out to be a big deal but if your children aren’t taught to be religious out of school it’s very unlikely this two mins per day will have any influence on them and definitely doesn’t mean they’re treated as less important.