Do you count as a ‘vegetarian’ if you don’t announce it?

[AnAwesomePossum]

I have realised as I’ve typed that it sounds like I’m being incredibly goady, but honestly I’m not! It was a philosophical thought.

My son (3) doesn’t eat meat. There is no real reason for this. He had a sausage a few months ago, some chicken a bit afterwards, but nothing in the past few months. I put meat on his plate, we cook it on BBQs, he even tells me he likes certain things (in a 3 year old way - “I don’t like chicken today but I do like it other days”) but he still won’t eat it. He may eat some of the meat at nursery but not sure if he doesn’t just pick around it.

This is fine. He eats eggs, cheese and peanut butter like it’s going out of fashion so I’m not worried.

So, in practice he is a vegetarian. In language he’s never described himself (or had an active thought) as one and wouldn’t know what they means. So is he a vegetarian (probably temporarily but who knows) or do you have to make a conscious thought to be one?

So if I put it in AIBU terms: AIBU to think he is NOT vegetarian until he has declared (or made a conscious thought) that he is one?

I don't think you have to 'announce' it but you have to make a conscious decision. It doesn't sound like your DS has made a conscious decision so I would say he's not a vegetarian he just doesn't like meat.

@OchonAgusOchonOh I do agree with that don’t think you need a reason not to eat meat, you just don’t. But your post reminds me so much of a great aunt who was a ‘vegetarian’, but still ate chicken & turkey roasts. Basically they didn’t eat dark meat but considered themselves ‘vegetarians who eat poultry’.

A person who won't eat other animals but will eat fish is a pescitarian, not a vegetarian.
Loads of people have dietary preferences. I don't like meat, but will happily eat stock, gelatine etc.It's occasionally easier to claim to be a vegetarian (eg, at events where you have to pre-order meals etc) than get into the ins and outs of what you will and will not eat. I think that does confuse people, though. It would be much easier to just have more veggie main options at these kind of events rather than "have" to choose from the veggie or meat menu only.

@WTF99

Does it matter? And what does 'counting' as a vegetarian mean? Who are you counting to??

It doesn’t ‘matter’ in any way. It doesn’t make it any less interesting for me though. I personally like to theorise things like this because people are getting a bit of bored trying to establish the meaning of life:

See, despite a pp saying wtf, I would still if pushed describe myself as a vegetarian, an imperfect one but still a vegetarian. I don't announce, nor do I expect perfection in others. I actively try to avoid animal products but in the world we live in this impossible.

My question is non-implicated though. I used my son as an example but he isn’t really relevant to it. What is a vegetarian? Is it someone who just doesn’t eat meat? Do you need to make a conscious decision not to eat meat? Does it need to be for ethic reasons? I thought the definition was purely not on eating meat, but that doesn’t feel like it holds water as I could be an ‘ad hoc’ vegetarian as it’s not unusual for me to go a week or more without eating meat. So what criteria do you need to meet(meat) yo be one?

No, you don't become a vegetarian through not eating meat for a week, op. It isn't something you can pick up and put down on a weekly basis😂

He's just not into it. He's only 3.

I just didn't like eating animals so stopped dead.

No one needs to label it or identify as anything. I have been one for 20+years and it simply means please don't expect me to eat meat. I have never taken the pledge! It is mainly something that helps other people know what you will and won't eat.

@GreyhoundG1rl

No, you don't become a vegetarian through not eating meat for a week, op. It isn't something you can pick up and put down on a weekly basis😂

But vegetarian literally means not eating meat.

But vegetarian literally means not eating meat.
Ever. Not just every other week.

@GreyhoundG1rl

But vegetarian literally means not eating meat. Ever. Not just every other week.

If that’s true, then can you ever truly be a vegetarian if you once ate meat? Can you ever be an ex-vegetarian, practising for 40 years but then did decide to eat meat? How do you meet the criteria?

I think it’s simpler than this. It’s just not eating meat (including fish) for a sustained, indefinite period. If there was a culture where people didn’t eat meat they’d be described as vegetarian, regardless of whether individuals made a conscious choice themselves. The indefinite part is important imo; if you just happen to be eating vegetarian meals for a few weeks, but know you’re likely to eat meat in the near future then you aren’t vegetarian.

Pescatarian here. Not vegetarian despite going long periods without eating fish from time to time, because fish is always an option iyswim. Other types of meat aren’t. Fish is always on the hypothetical menu, whereas chicken, beef, etc. is firmly off.

I can’t see how your son is vegetarian if he will sometimes eat meat, however rarely. If it gets to the point that it is simply something he doesn’t and won’t eat, then for me he would be, regardless of whether he has a particular reason or has come to a conscious decision.

If that’s true, then can you ever truly be a vegetarian if you once ate meat? Can you ever be an ex-vegetarian, practising for 40 years but then did decide to eat meat? How do you meet the criteria?
Just intent, maybe? An actual decision not to continue eating meat?
I actually was a vegetarian for around twenty years. I don't eat much meat at all even now, but I wouldn't consider myself veggie any more. Just because I know I may not eat meat tomorrow or all next week, but I may change my mind. Or eat it the following week...

I know what you mean op. My ds has never liked meat but it took him quite a while to actually decide he was a pescatarian (he eats fish). My dh is a very strict veggie (eats honey, so not quite vegan), so ds understood that some people choose not to eat meat and decided he was one of those people when he was about 7. The rest of us are omnivores and he has always had the opportunity to eat meat if he so chooses.

@GreyhoundG1rl

If that’s true, then can you ever truly be a vegetarian if you once ate meat? Can you ever be an ex-vegetarian, practising for 40 years but then did decide to eat meat? How do you meet the criteria? Just intent, maybe? An actual decision not to continue eating meat? I actually was a vegetarian for around twenty years. I don't eat much meat at all even now, but I wouldn't consider myself veggie any more. Just because I know I may not eat meat tomorrow or all next week, but I may change my mind. Or eat it the following week...

Possibly, but most would say I wasn't a vegetarian although mine is an actual decision to avoid meat, I don't choose meat (despite loving the taste and actually missing it) I look at the ingredients and don't eat gelatine etc where I have a choice, but equally I will accept what I'm given/accept how it it cooked when outside my control

Well, that's fair enough, Crockof. I suppose what label you give it doesn't actually matter, really. Fwiw, I only avoided meat because I found the texture nauseating, not for any ethical / moral reasons.
So you're already ahead

Also, vegetarian as a label implies a habit or an ongoing state. It would be absurd to say you were a vegetarian for Tuesday lunch, for example because that was the day you forego your usual ham sandwich!

[quote AnAwesomePossum]@OchonAgusOchonOh I do agree with that don’t think you need a reason not to eat meat, you just don’t. But your post reminds me so much of a great aunt who was a ‘vegetarian’, but still ate chicken & turkey roasts. Basically they didn’t eat dark meat but considered themselves ‘vegetarians who eat poultry’.[/quote]
Many years ago, when attending a conference in the US, I specified I was vegetarian in the dietary preferences section. I was offered a choice of chicken or fish at the conference banquet...

I do agree labels are a bit silly though. A vegetarian may eat far more animal products overall while still satisfying the criteria than someone who eats both meat and dairy once in a blue moon.

@DeathByWalkies

You are a vegetarian if you don't eat meat or meat products regardless of the reasons behind your decision.

You are a pain in the bloody arse if you eat fish and other meaty things and still describe yourself as a vegetarian. The reason being, you still get some restaurants who think fish is vegetarian. I had an argument with a waiter in a small tourist town last summer as he was quite adamant that the cod on the menu was a vegetarian option because lots of their vegetarian customers eat it.

Trouble is that if a pescetarian accurately describes themselves as a pescetarian in a catering context, 90% of the time it results in (a) confusion and then (b) being given the vegetarian option, if they don't fuck up and decide that you eat chicken.

Much easier just to ask for the vegetarian option tbh.

Fine to ask what the vegetarian option is. Vegetarian food is a subset of food and can be eaten by most people. It's people who announce they are vegetarians (and yes, some do) and ask what is available for them, and then choose the fish because it sounds nicer, who are the problem.

I wouldn't say he's a vegetarian because he'd probably eat a soup made with chicken stock or perhaps even mashed potato with beef gravy? He just doesn't like to eat meat. Vegetarian is more of a conscious choice, either for ethical or health reasons.

Is a three year old even capable of a) knowing what vegetarianism is b) making a conscious choice to be a vegetarian for ethical or health reasons and c) of knowing the nuances of what constitutes "meat free" (eg, knowing hairdo has gelatine in or that some gravies are meat based?)

I would never consider such a young child a vegetarian, regardless of what diet they eat. Until they can make that decision themselves, they are just dietary preferences or the parents choices. Both of which are of course fine!

I do think there needs to be a conscious decision to be a vegetarian, but I am also curious about whether someone who has lived their lives only ever eating vegetables because they don’t know any better is a vegetarian.

I think the same applies to most belief based ideologies - is a Christian a Christian if they were raised for however many years like that but wasn’t given another option, for example?

@GreyhoundG1rl

Well, that's fair enough, Crockof. I suppose what label you give it doesn't actually matter, really. Fwiw, I only avoided meat because I found the texture nauseating, not for any ethical / moral reasons. So you're already ahead

I think I'm actually behind. I want to eat it so very much.