How do farmers reconcile themselves to the volumes of animals they send to slaughter over the course of their lifetimes?

[Empanadas]

Hi, this is something I’ve always wondered. However, I was watching that Netflix series about Prince Charles and the Duchy of Cornwall and there was a farmer showing a whole barn of cattle he has obviously reared from birth, but quite blithely saying, “oh they'll all be off next week.”

AIBU to think being a cattle / sheep / chicken farmer takes a certain type of person and to wonder how they deal with their conscience in this depressing business?

I freely admit I have no idea about food production and have said so several times. The money comes from slaughter though, this much we can be sure of.

please could you just accept you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about here or the overall context you mean me being both vegan of five years and coming from a beef farming family means I have no understanding…. I know a lot about beef cattle, the supply chain, how the supermarkets operate, how farming has changed in dairy and beef farming in the last generation, I read the Guardian and the Farmers Guardian. I think it gives a pretty interesting perspective and I have a fairly useful background particularly given I’m vegan now. But no I have “no idea” about your husband’s apparently US intelligence classified work that’s what - going to solve all these problems? Justify what he made your money from? - just I have no idea how you reconcile his work to date with any kind of ethics. It really is a case of (I) those in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones and (ii) horse for courses on what people deem acceptable.

What are you actually on about now Goreky.

Empanadas Yes meat comes from dead animals, ask your husband how he feels about it when he has his next animal-based produce meal

Except farmers aren’t an echo chamber, they all have different ideas on farming and life. But thanks for assuming!

@Empanadas

I freely admit I have no idea about food production and have said so several times. The money comes from slaughter though, this much we can be sure of.

Just like the rabbits which are shot on arable farms.

I mean, many of us do or have done jobs where we've had to make ethical compromises.

But what I don't get is living in a household that has clearly had to make those ethical compromises for the sake of the job, you profess to be so unable to understand how people can happily work in ways that others would find unacceptably unethical without having to 'reconcile' or 'compartmentalise' or be 'a certain type of person'.

It's an interesting cognitive dissonance.

What “ethical compromises” did I make in my work?

Presently he’s involved in something which will have a significant global impact within the next two years, environmentally and in human terms

OP, your posts come across as a mixture of stubborn, uninformed, prejudiced and extremely aggressive TBH.

Frankly, it's worrying that someone who will start a venture 'with a significant global impact environmentally and in human terms' can be under the influence of such toxic atmosphere.

The money comes from slaughter though, this much we can be sure of.

You are looking at this from a completely different POV than the farmer OP. You see money, whereas farmers see the farm. The animals, buildings, people, plants, land and the community. All working together to provide people with food. All of the farmers I know work other jobs (construction, driving, manufacturing) because farms aren't particularly profitable.

Empanadas you’ve never co-mingled / taken money / financial benefit from your partner who worked in a Swiss bank, pharma and travel?

You could say you make an ethical compromise when you buy clothes in certain retail outlets. Chances are the cotton might have been produced from slave labour. Probably you will never know for sure. So is it unethical to work in say, Primark (off the top of my head but insert any chain store)? Are the management there also corrupt and profiting from human suffering. People will make a call about this. But still, there a obvious difference between the people who work, manage, invest or shop in Primark and those who are there, “at the coal face” as it were, enforcing the slave labour, day in day out. How would they answer if asked how they could tolerate directly overseeing that environment, do you think? “Oh, they have good working conditions, better than other factories.” “It’s better now than it was 50 years ago.” “Do you wear clothes? Well, then you have no right to ask questions or be concerned?”

So yes I agree we all are guilty of cognitive dissonance in so many levels everyday. Which was why I was interested in those who see animal slaughter with their own eyes, to the extent it’s normalised for them. I could have equally asked the question of slaughterhouse workers.

@Empanadas

I would like to know this please -

Are dairy cows routinely slaughtered too when they reach the end of their use, or do they tend to get left alone? What happens? What is the average age for dairy cows?

Yes. They slaughter cow's once they're past milk producing age. Around 12ish depending on breed. Cows are also routinely artificially inseminated or mated to keep them in calf. The calves are removed from the cow 12-24hours after birth and the milk sold to humans.

By the way, before anyone jumps in, I’m not conflating owners if slave factories in China with farmers.

I’m just saying cognitive dissonance takes many forms and we are all guilty of it. Farmers, meat consumers and vegans..

Empanadas

By the way, before anyone jumps in, I’m not conflating owners if slave factories in China with farmers.

I’m just saying cognitive dissonance takes many forms and we are all guilty of it. Farmers, meat consumers and vegans..

TRUE!!!!! And it’ll take all of us to improve things. In all honesty consumers need to pressurise supermarkets (a key “hub”) if you want any change. Eg revolutionising factory farmed chicken and pig practices, which to me are the pits, and changing automatic halal slaughter if you’re against that. Supermarkets control a lot, and consumers can push for change

I have never said cattle farming should just end tomorrow and all herds out down confused As if! When you say you are a vegan people assume all sorts of nonsense frankly.

PETA however does advocate for the slaughter of farm animals as an end to their "torture".

@Empanadas, I wouldnt waste my virtual breath with the stubborn posters here who get defensive at the mere suggestion that perhaps slaughtering sentient beings after having raised them might create emotional conflicts. It clearly doesn't for many. Could be they don't view them as sentient beings, they compertmentalise and disconnect, feel they have a right to kill because they allowed them to exist (God complex), they hide behind a false sense of mission (I'm feeding the world, everyone needs protein, we are omnivores!) etc etc. It's so indoctrinated that they can't see it. Please don't get depressed as we need out of the box thinkers and people who question these things... Hope your DH helps find a solution to the suffering. I'm all for lab meat for instance...

What “ethical compromises” did I make in my work?

I didn't say you had, I said your household had.

Given the environmental footprint of the finance sector, the average bank is responsible for much more slaughter of animals (farm and wildlife) than any individual farm.

Given the choice, I'd rather a livestock animal was slaughtered humanely rather than a primate starve to death after its habitat was destroyed.

So I guess it's a question of - how do bankers reconcile themselves to that? Does it take a certain type of person? AIBU to wonder how they deal with their conscience in this depressing business?

Kumonkumon I’m a vegan… what do you mean “It's so indoctrinated that they can't see it”? See what? They’ve given their explanations and you’re writing them off as morally inferior. I’m NOT for lab meat it we’re looking for solutions because it is easy to spike and is still from a dead animal. Your idea of an improvement isn’t good enough - that’s the same for me and the vegan market now too, not being green enough or cheap enough. But it doesn’t improve anything to say “they can’t see it”…. what you’re seeing isn’t acceptable to others either.

Do you mean “can’t see the emotional conflicts they have actually explained at length, resolved by whatever means, and everyone makes their own personal choice and it’s not for any of us to impose our beliefs….”? So long as people make an informed decision I don’t see the issue with anyone’s lifestyle! You might not like it but it’s their choice

Jassy - if you’re that concerned about people who wok in banks or who have ever had a spell in banking, why not start that very thread? I can’t answer for my husband as this is when he was 25-30 and he’s 50 now. But it’s a valid question, so start your thread and, if he’s available, I could try and persuade him to come on MN to give a perspective.

Jassy - if you’re that concerned about people who wok in banks or who have ever had a spell in banking, why not start that very thread? I can’t answer for my husband as this is when he was 25-30 and he’s 50 now. But it’s a valid question, so start your thread and, if he’s available, I could try and persuade him to come on MN to give a perspective.

But it's the same question as you asked of farmers - and my point remains the same. Why do you find this so hard to understand with regard to farmers, when you've have a similar situation apparently at odds with what you can get your head around in terms of What Can Humans Do For Work in your own home?

There are many aspects of the world I might not be delighted about Jassy and they are not mutually exclusive. Yesterday, I happened to post about sending cattle to slaughter.

Indeed. But surely the principle is the same, in terms of how you approach understanding of it? Or is because farmers are more practically involved than the comfort of doing it via a computer terminal that you think it's different?

@OrangeRug

Simple - they don't actually give a shit about the animals. Just like the consumers who pay for these animals to be slaughtered all the while virtue signalling about abandoned cats and dogs in hot cars.

Some people really are clueless. The farmers I know have more respect for animals than anyone else I've come into contact with. You're utterly blinkered.