How do farmers reconcile themselves to the volumes of animals they send to slaughter over the course of their lifetimes?

[Empanadas]

Hi, this is something I’ve always wondered. However, I was watching that Netflix series about Prince Charles and the Duchy of Cornwall and there was a farmer showing a whole barn of cattle he has obviously reared from birth, but quite blithely saying, “oh they'll all be off next week.”

AIBU to think being a cattle / sheep / chicken farmer takes a certain type of person and to wonder how they deal with their conscience in this depressing business?

Oh! And I wanted to say that your choice of username is a bit odd. As most traditional empanadas have meat, fish or cheese fillings. All of which require animal husbandry! As does pastry - from insects up!

@Empanadas

To be honest, when you Google questions such as I have posed, it gets very distressing. Pictures of dairy cows that have collapsed; all sorts of horror and utter misery. So if people on here claim to know better, I’d like to hear about it. Maybe it’s not the norm for male calves to be killed at birth? I mean, how routine is this? Same with male chicks? You can get a different perspective maybe from talking to people than you can from internet sites. That’s what I was hoping, I suppose.

To be honest? Really??

So, with the best of interpretations, you want other human beings to experience the distress you are so keen to avoid, simply to educate you an a matter that is asold as mankind!

OK!

Start with the actual law in this country. There are plenty of publications on the minimum standards, best practice, what is allowed and what isn’t.

Compassion in World Farming also has some good guides to differences between farming systems in terms of welfare and the practices involved in each.

They’re not running a charity and if they can’t make money on the animals there won’t be any more.

Imagine if we applied that logic to humans.

(You still haven’t answered why you’re so focused on ruminants?)

If these animals weren't raised for food, they wouldn't exist...

Why does this keep being put forth as an argument in defence of industrial scale farming?

Its quite clear that it would be better they didn't exist than to be here, destined for slaughter and human consumption.

What about other animals? The ones that ruin crops like rabbits? You are going to have to kill them. Then what do you do with them?

What about insects? Do they have rights or just mamals?

@HoppingPavlova this doesn’t happen anymore, I think killing bull calves at birth is being entirely banned by the end of the year. Dairy cows are for the most part impregnated with pre sexed semen from places like Cogent.

Thankyou for that info, 21Flora.

I will never be vegetarian or vegan but I do buy only free range from named farms. It's more expensive, eg a 2lb chicken costs £22 which is about four times the cost of an intensively reared supermarket chicken. It means I eat less meat but I believe the animals should have the best possible life before being killed.

I once read a book on an experiment carried out on plants. They attached electrodes to a plant a bit like a heart monitor and several people went into the room, most of whom were asked to say nice things in front of the plant. One person was asked to say aggressive things in a harsh voice.

Later, they all walked up to the plant one by one. The monitor showed no movement until the nasty person was standing in front of it.

Think about that the next time you're munching on a lettuce leaf.

My parents farm buy 2 day old bull calves from dairy farms (the ones in our area like to keep them with the cows for a few days so they get colostrum) which are then hand raised till weening then kept on pasture till about 30 months and 400-500kg.

Bully calves are worth money if you have a good market for beef.

I think the “horror” of animals being sent to slaughter is connected to the disconnect we as a society have to where our food actually comes from as well as death and dying in general.
It’s something we fear, rarely see and outsource.

“(You still haven’t answered why you’re so focused on ruminants?)”

I’m not. If you want to share the all the joys of pig farming, feel free to fire away.

@Crankley - Anyone who compares an animal to a plant is ridiculous. One has a nervous system (ability to feel pain!) and one doesn’t.
Free range doesn’t change the fact you’re taking away the right to live of that animal, also you have no clue how they meet their death, unless you are there present whilst the animals is being slaughtered.

Well, yes. Given they are male dairy calves what would you do with them? No point raising them for meat as they are not beef cattle. Sitting them in a paddock to eat pasture and watch rainbows is a loss no one could afford

Fucking hell.

I help to care for four of these male dairy calves (well they're grown now) at a sanctuary. Beautiful, beautiful creatures.

@Clymene

Christ vegans are fucking tedious

Agree, especially the judgmental ones. Just get on and have the freedom to choose what food you want either way. So so dull!

I think the “horror” of animals being sent to slaughter is connected to the disconnect we as a society have to where our food actually comes from as well as death and dying in general.
It’s something we fear, rarely see and outsource.

I think it's actually the mass and intense scale slaughter takes place at, actually.

Gone are the days where people ate meat once a week as a luxury because the price of it reflected the cost and care that had gone into raising and slaughtering the animal.

How anyone can justify the horror show of farming for animals to end up queing up in a conveyerbelt of death is beyond me.

Do slaughtermen/women have to pass any sort of background checks to hold such a responsible position?

@Wrennie24 - I suppose it’s a good thing you have the freedom to choose what food you eat, unlike the animals that have no choice.

I help to care for four of these male dairy calves (well they're grown now) at a sanctuary. Beautiful, beautiful creatures.

That’s the point - you cared for four. Think about it - roughly 50% of births could be male. How many sanctuaries would it take to house them all (all makes from all dairy herds) and how will the sanctuaries finance all of these beautiful creatures. Four is incredibly different to every male dairy calf and it doesn’t seem a very sensible solution.

I often think the same OP, I completely appreciate that it's not any more immoral than buying the stuff from the supermarket (which I do) but I just cannot imagine being able to stomach it first hand and wonder how others do.

@HoppingPavlova

No it's not a sensible solution and like I've said already, I'd rather these beautiful sentient animals didn't exist than the current alternative.

How anyone can justify the horror show of farming for animals to end up queing up in a conveyerbelt of death is beyond me.

As I pointed out previously, your ancestors drove mammals over cliffs etc. I think they would scratch their heads over your horror of farming.

It’s all fine everyone. Nothing to worry about because, after all, animals were once driven off cliffs.

OP you just have to be really careful with what you Google - like I said upthread (and I’m vegan!) I’ve seen so much on IG and Facebook that’s just a lie about farming. And PETA - like really outrageous lies about sheep shearing being bad (!!) as if the sheep wouldn’t die left to grow their fleece (which is what happens, infection/ inability to move). Maybe we need a farming website that teaches people about British farming and the variety of farms, so you see it’s not a block of all the same people with all the same practices - same as office work, no one has the same business type or culture.

For resources - from a farming perspective we have the NFU and a great head of it called Minette Batters but they don’t do an overview of farming, more news updates www.nfuonline.com/
Same with the Farmers Guardian www.fginsight.com/
There is some overview here but it’s quite heavy www.gov.uk/government/collections/agriculture-in-the-united-kingdom

Also farming ranges so much by area - as we’ve alluded to, how you farm in the hills is totally different to crop farming.

Example of hill farming - www.instagram.com/herdyshepherd1/?hl=en and www.instagram.com/redshepherdess/?hl=en

Example of arable farming (organic) www.instagram.com/bentheoandrews/?hl=en and (think mix) www.instagram.com/wyefarm/

Then there are mega industrial animal and arable farms in the midlands/ south owned by corporations, I don’t think they’ll have public websites

By that logic, let’s not worry about human rights either because “the ancestors.”

Backstreetsbackalrightdadada - Thankyou for all this.

What would your ideal world look like Empanadas?