How do farmers reconcile themselves to the volumes of animals they send to slaughter over the course of their lifetimes?

[Empanadas]

Hi, this is something I’ve always wondered. However, I was watching that Netflix series about Prince Charles and the Duchy of Cornwall and there was a farmer showing a whole barn of cattle he has obviously reared from birth, but quite blithely saying, “oh they'll all be off next week.”

AIBU to think being a cattle / sheep / chicken farmer takes a certain type of person and to wonder how they deal with their conscience in this depressing business?

Thanks.
I wasn't talking about whether factory work is " fun" or not though. I was talking about enslaved people working for nothing or very little. Working conditions that make people ill. Dangerous working environments. Employers treating their workforce as disposable items. Child labour.

I am not telling anyone to be vegan. I would NEVER do that. My own children are not vegan.

For the final time, the thread is not about veganism!

And my point in summary was "is it ok then that only rich children can eat chicken?," because if you don't want farmers killing thousands of animals, that is effectively what will happen. Meat will become a luxury product.

My reply was to @Newgirls

*You have to eat a lot of a vegan foods (which are not energy dense) to get sufficient energy from it. But children do not generally eat huge volumes of food, so getting enough calories and protein in to them is a challenge. Also a child deriving protein from pulses, has to have the right combination of plant based foods, whereas a child who only eats chicken will get all the correct amino acids from one good source.

This.

@Petalplucker

Yes, the unpalatable truth is that the availability of a fairly cheap supermarket chicken is a godsend for many families with young DC who are living below the poverty line.

You have to eat a lot of a vegan foods (which are not energy dense) to get sufficient energy from it. But children do not generally eat huge volumes of food, so getting enough calories and protein in to them is a challenge.

Also a child deriving protein from pulses, has to have the right combination of plant based foods, whereas a child who only eats chicken will get all the correct amino acids from one good source.

So the ethical dilemma is , is it morally and ethically right for those of us with the financial means to eat a broad selection of farm fresh veg with a little locally sourced organic meat thrown in, to deny a child whose family lives on the poverty line, the nutritional benefits of a reasonably priced supermarket chicken?

That’s not accurate. Are you a nutritionist? Cheap chicken isn’t very nutritious. Kids food in poverty is a massive issue and processed ham etc isn’t great. Tin of beans is prob better than most ham. It’s a huge issue that deserves nuance.

It just struck me that not many people - vegan, vegetarian or meat eater - would be able to take that kind of attitude and it got me thinking. Hence the thread.

Really? I think most people take that attitude. But then I grew up in the countryside. Everyone knew where their food came from.

@Bitofachinwag

Thanks. I wasn't talking about whether factory work is " fun" or not though. I was talking about enslaved people working for nothing or very little. Working conditions that make people ill. Dangerous working environments. Employers treating their workforce as disposable items. Child labour.

Of course. But you are picking on vegan foods which is odd. The UK eats vastly more processed meat than vegan foods. If anyone is worried about factory workers don’t buy meat sausages, ham, ready meals etc whatever is in them.

@Empanadas Agricultural property relief is 100% on farmed property. Why do you think James Dyson has bought up thousands and thousands of acres of farmland.

vulpesfoxtrot yes to that!

Newgirls this has already been raised on the thread. There’s not whatabouterry when food production currently has limited options. If you want affordable, green, ethical food it currently is not achievable. When we talk about food production, it’s taking into account that most vegan food is from abroad where ethics to production lines are less certain - even tomatoes from Italy have slave labour involved. Arable work can involve totally unethical practices and we have no oversight of practices overseas. Consumers just see a nice label on their food about nutrition but not practices. The UK for all its faults actually has some of the very best farming practices in the world and workers rights - not perfect, but still among the best. Vegan food is not necessarily ethical food AT ALL, and not affordable. And i’m a vegan (for the last five years now).

So you can say “whatabouterry” but what we’re saying is there is no “good” solution only what’s acceptable to you.

Please don't assume what farmers think!!!

There is still a functioning feudal system in the UK.
Particularly in areas of Scotland where to pay rent to a titled landlord isn't unusual.
Around 30% of farms are tenanted.

I'm also going to put these up to show you the numbers of farmed animals in the UK currently.

@Backstreetsbackalrightdadada

vulpesfoxtrot yes to that!

Newgirls this has already been raised on the thread. There’s not whatabouterry when food production currently has limited options. If you want affordable, green, ethical food it currently is not achievable. When we talk about food production, it’s taking into account that most vegan food is from abroad where ethics to production lines are less certain - even tomatoes from Italy have slave labour involved. Arable work can involve totally unethical practices and we have no oversight of practices overseas. Consumers just see a nice label on their food about nutrition but not practices. The UK for all its faults actually has some of the very best farming practices in the world and workers rights - not perfect, but still among the best. Vegan food is not necessarily ethical food AT ALL, and not affordable. And i’m a vegan (for the last five years now).

So you can say “whatabouterry” but what we’re saying is there is no “good” solution only what’s acceptable to you.

I’m not vegan and have read the thread. What you say is not accurate. Traditional meat farming in the uk is not the majority of the meat we eat in the Uk. There is vastly more factory and imported meat than ideal practises mentioned here. There is a lot of spin around meat by supermarkets and people fall for it.

My opinion is if people ate high welfare meat once a week - Sunday roast - then we wouldn’t be in this mess. Meat has become too casual - in supermarket sandwiches, chicken shops, on pizzas etc none of which is really needed.

I wish people would look at the nuance and be more mindful. Plenty of renowned scientists are telling us we need to eat less meat and cutting out the badly reared stuff would help and I think be an easy step for many.

If people want to read about protein plant alternatives in uk take a look at Hodmedods. They are growing more pulses to cope with demand though it’s a drop in the ocean to what the uk need.

We import 50% of all our food still whatever it is.

How do farmers reconcile themselves to animals they have reared being sent for slaughter.

The answer to your question is that farmers feel good about being able to provide fellow humans with the food they need. So, as a PP has said, there's nothing to reconcile

If people want to read about protein plant alternatives

No, we don't want to

Plenty of renowned scientists are telling us we need to eat less meat

As there are equally plenty of scientists that tell us that many need a diet including all food groups (and are not talking about reducing anything)

@ChangePart1 agree with you. Farmers talk about a circle of life, but as long as they get to control the beginning and end of the circle. This gives them a false sense of superiority, a mission they invented. They don't view animals as sentient beings. Not too dissimilar to soldiers going in autopilot mode. (obviously for different reasons, just talking about autopiloting here) and Just like the rat rearing for snake food example they compartmentalise. They know a baby calf is going to be sent to be slaughtered so they don't develop a bond.

We as omnivore humans have a choice, and are consciously choosing to cause environmental damage, killing and pain. The only way you can rationalise this choice is to autopilot, and justify it with 'oh I need protein' , 'oh they wouldn't exist if we werent here so I'm god I can kill them' etc...

😂 well that’s open minded of you

No mention of inheritance tax

don't worry about that, there's none when estates are put into trusts etc.
Just research the inheritance of the late Duke of Westminster.

And my point in summary was "is it ok then that only rich children can eat chicken?," because if you don't want farmers killing thousands of animals, that is effectively what will happen. Meat will become a luxury product

^This, with bells on

If people want to read about protein plant alternatives

not sure my dogs are going be that interested.

It isn't feudal at all, tenanted farms allow next generation progression in the same way owner occupier farms do. It isn't feudal to pay rent FFS, we need to get away from thinking you MUST own your piece of England.

Just have a search for the huge amount of cruelty that goes on at slaughter houses - yes, it takes a certain kind of person to work there.

I work in one, overseeing animal welfare. Dismiss me as a monster, if you will, but I take my job very seriously. It also offers the opportunity to spot potential welfare problems out on the farms as well, once you learn to read the signs.

I would say that a lot of the bad treatment I’ve seen in some of those sick videos that appear periodically are related to poor education combined with familiarity breeding contempt.

Driving animals properly requires a lot of patience. They need to be given plenty of time to assess whether where they’re going is safe. Good design is essential. The surroundings should look similar to the pens on the farm that they are familiar with. There should be muted colours, few sharp corners they can’t see round, and minimal unexpected objects.

In badly designed slaughterhouses, where the staff are not educated in driving animals, those staff are likely to be permanently frustrated as good flow is essential to keep the line running. Frustrated animal handlers are more likely to start to take their frustrations out on the animals. But it doesn’t need to be that way, and that’s something that is (in my opinion) really worth trying to work on..

@TheSpottedZebra

I think they just think that's the way it is - that (some) animals are to be eaten. As it always has been. But the good ones give them a good life and hopefully an easy death.

Exactly this.

They probably think that it takes a certain person to be a vegan of a vegetarian.

@rachelstriffle

If people want to read about protein plant alternatives

not sure my dogs are going be that interested.

Let’s not worry about climate change then as long as our pets and we can eat anything we like!