How do farmers reconcile themselves to the volumes of animals they send to slaughter over the course of their lifetimes?

[Empanadas]

Hi, this is something I’ve always wondered. However, I was watching that Netflix series about Prince Charles and the Duchy of Cornwall and there was a farmer showing a whole barn of cattle he has obviously reared from birth, but quite blithely saying, “oh they'll all be off next week.”

AIBU to think being a cattle / sheep / chicken farmer takes a certain type of person and to wonder how they deal with their conscience in this depressing business?

[quote Anotherlovelybitofsquirrel]@TheSpottedZebra an easy death? You have no fucking idea.

@ChangePart1 agreed. A very certain sort of person.

OP the answer is because they're cunts. [/quote]
Well isn't that lovely.

[quote Anotherlovelybitofsquirrel]@TheSpottedZebra an easy death? You have no fucking idea.

@ChangePart1 agreed. A very certain sort of person.

OP the answer is because they're cunts. [/quote]
Quite an ironic username you have there....

YABU OP. You know fuck all about farming or animals or basic biology. You are entitled to your views of course, but they are ignorant.

I'm late to the thread but is there any farmers on here that raise pigs that are kept indoors their whole lives that can reassure me that these animals are happy and have all their needs met? I see such awful videos of pigs kept confined in the semi darkness with no bedding etc. It's so upsetting.

The “walking through death” statement I made is genuinely how I feel in the meat or frozen meat aisles of supermarkets. Call me crazy all you like. I really do t care because all the mockery in the world doesn’t change the fact that it is dead animals. If it was parts of dead humans, people would be horrified and nobody would be saying “you’re too sensitive, get over it. They were killed humanely.” I don’t want to “get over it” actually. I’m not causing a hoopla outside butchers or whatever, but that’s how I’ve always felt and I can’t change that and it is what it is.

@Notadramallama there has been a fair amount of criticism in the thread for industrially raised very cheap chicken from supporters of farmers.

Treatment of pigs in the Uk isn't bad and it is possible to buy outdoor reared pork quite easily.

I am concerned that the Oz trade deal will impact animal welfare because it will undercut higher welfare UK animals.

@ChangePart1

They don't see them as living, breathing, individual beings. They certainly don't see them as having any intrinsic rights or worth beyond financial.

To them it's the same as if they were growing crops and then sending them off to distributers. They don't see themselves as having anything to come to terms with or reconcile themselves to.

And I agree, it definitely takes a certain sort of person. But I think it takes a certain sort of person to be able to eat animal products, work in an abattoir, or carry out animal testing too.

What sort of person is that?

Is it that much of a stretch to think that cattle farming, if not wound down completely, could be significantly reduced in the future?

OP, do you manage to grasp the fact that many humans would be severely malnourished if they consumed a plant based or 'animal reduced' diet?

You seem to believe you are very empathetic but you are not.

I can't understand why some seem to vouch for everything and everyone that is alien to them (including other species) but are happy to throw fellow humans (and those who are close) under the bus, no problem

@derxa I don’t know what you are talking about? I was explaining how a plant based diet is better for the environment in response to someone who indicated it was worse. My explanation wasn’t backed up by theories but by multiple peer reviewed articles. I pointed out that there are plants grown by U.K. farmers that we can buy as well. That has nothing to do with you selling your land. You seem to not be reading what I’m saying as your responses bear no relevance to my comments. I haven’t said anything about your land being sold.

People say, “Oh the countryside is so beautiful,” but all I see is death on the hillsides. It’s ruins the landscape for me. I’m not the only one.

But surely that applies to all animals in every situation. They all have shorter life spans than us (except tortoises and parrots). If you have live stock, you have dead stock. It's an inevitable fact of life. Death is part of life. It is for humans too although we choose to ignore it.

I know about horses so I'll use those as an example. If you have ever seen herds of wild horses on the pampas in Argentina; yes they have a wonderful roaming natural free lifestyle but if you see them close up they are thin, some are worm ridden, some are limping carrying horrific injuries, some are dragging around a broken bone. Living free in nature does not mean you necessarily live an existence of sweetness and light. And many are lost to drought, starvation and injury. It literally is survival of the fittest.

Sheep in the Yorkshire Dales get to roam free but they have to withstand extreme weather, dangerous river crossings, predators etc.

Just because they are allowed to live a "natural" life that doesn't necessarily equate to a better one. A domesticated animal, or one raised for meat, may not live a long life but it will be relatively comfortable (I am obviously excluding factory farming here).

Life in the wild can be much more precarious than you imagine.

India has much higher level of poverty than the UK mustlovegin, but they don’t eat beef. Muslims don’t eat pork, even where there is poverty. It’s not true that we simply HAVE to have all these types of meat available cheaply at all times or well all be malnourished. Millions of people worldwide in all types of circumstances never eat meat at all and never did. But generally, if we could just deal with overproduction of meat, that would be something. A step in the right direction.

@Empanadas I think you are very naive if you don’t know that animals are killed to produce ALL food. Your loaf of bread or bowl of cereal has had manure from chicken sheds, manure from a dairy or fish bone and blood spread on for fertiliser, birds, deers, rabbits and foxes are shot to keep them from eating the crop, at harvest thousands of small mammals are killed by the combine. When the harvest is done a break crop will be planted every three or so years such as stubble turnips. Cows and sheep will graze it in the ground as a forage crop, this helps to add much needed nutrition and improve soil structure.

Maybe you should have a hard look at yourself before being so horrible to people who work harder than most people will ever know to put food on your table.

@Empanadas - you live in a total bubble. Can you really and honestly say you know where your nice vegan food comes from? That no bugs, worms, birds etc. were harmed while it was grown? No humans were exploited?

“Life in the wild can be much more precarious than you imagine.”

Yes this is a valid point, I’d still rather have few cows for grazing / dairy purposes only. If animals are only being bred for slaughter, it would be better if this didn’t happen at all. That’s my take in it, but of course others will disagree and justify it however they need to.

Do you know about bobby calves, Empanada? If not, that's really gonna bake your noodle.

[quote kikisparks]@derxa I don’t know what you are talking about? I was explaining how a plant based diet is better for the environment in response to someone who indicated it was worse. My explanation wasn’t backed up by theories but by multiple peer reviewed articles. I pointed out that there are plants grown by U.K. farmers that we can buy as well. That has nothing to do with you selling your land. You seem to not be reading what I’m saying as your responses bear no relevance to my comments. I haven’t said anything about your land being sold.[/quote]
I don't think you've grown a single thing in your life. Plants have to grown on a large scale to make a profit and that is very damaging to the environment.

“@Empanadas - you live in a total bubble. Can you really and honestly say you know where your nice vegan food comes from? That no bugs, worms, birds etc. were harmed while it was grown? No humans were exploited?”

What does this have to do with the thread?

If I started a thread about people buying dogs for Xmas and then getting rid of them and I don’t understand how they can do this, would you say “Well... what about bugs and worms? Will nobody think about avocados”?

India has a totally different set of various climates, so more flexibility on growing arable crops. We have a fixed (and poor seasonal) climate. You literally cannot compare production lines across different climates.

It’s not true that we simply HAVE to have all these types of meat available cheaply at all times or well all be malnourished

OP, a lot of people need animal based products for optimal health. I'm one example and there are many others. So, yes, try and think about this, because you are failing your fellow humans if you keep being so militant about this. Please do some research and don't fall for the the latest fad on Netflix.

And I'm absolutely against animal cruelty, by the way

India is home to 46.6 million stunted children, a third of world's total as per Global Nutrition Report 2018. Nearly half of all under-5 child mortality in India is attributable to undernutrition.

I'm not convinced that India is a model we should be aiming for.

Millions of people worldwide in all types of circumstances never eat meat at all and never did

Yes, some do well on a vegan diet, but absolutely not everyone

Try eating a plant based diet when you have allergies to legumes

“@Empanadas I think you are very naive if you don’t know that animals are killed to produce ALL food. Your loaf of bread or bowl of cereal has had manure from chicken sheds, manure from a dairy or fish bone and blood spread on for fertiliser, birds, deers, rabbits and foxes are shot to keep them from eating the crop, at harvest thousands of small mammals are killed by the combine.”

Thanks for that. And..., ?

So because animals are killed on a massive scale due to all types of human activity, nobody has a right to feel concerned about cattle farming - or anything?

Two wrongs don’t make a right. In the case of animals, two million wrongs certainly do not make a right.

If I’m concerned about beef slaughterhouses, for instance and then someone helpfully points out that chicks get thrown into grinders, I’m hardly going to say, “Oh well that’s sorted then.., silly me, never mind, eh.”

What weird logic

@Empanadas - you were emoting like mad about the cows and sheep and whatever else we eat, because they are cute, some are fluffy, you see them.
Do you equally care about how your food is grown and produced?

Could you not sterilise your cattle to keep the population to a certain size and just keep cows for grazing the land and milk maybe? Sheep for wool?

Where to even start with that one.