PASSPORT COUNTERSIGNING

[theconstantheadache]

Help???

I don't know anybody to countersign my 18MO passport ???

Iv no idea who to ask as every person iv asked hasn't renewed their passport or can't sign as they don't have a profession listed...

RickiTarr I still prefer the Dutch system. It's so much simpler - as long as you are registered in your local major town, all you have to do is go to the registration centre for your council (this is never far away and there is good public transport pretty much everywhere) with a photograph and your birth certificate or other ID (lots of options) and your debit card. You fill in a form, helped by a trained person at the counter (and they are really good), you pays your money, your passport is there a week later. For a small fee, they post it to you. So much less hassle. Passport fraud is not noticeably higher in the Netherlands than it is in the UK.

Marriage certificates, birth certificates etc are still easily stolen and misused.

You don't even need to steel them, you can go into a Registry office and buy a copy of anyone's Birth Certificate or Marriage Certificate. Effectively they are public documents.

I think you used have to know the person for 3 years but they didn't used to ask for so many details about the countersignitory.

@Howshouldibehave

I was once asked to sign a passport form given to me by the parent of a child who had started in my class that morning! They gave me a blank form and asked me if I could just put all my details down and they’d add their bits later . Funnily enough, I declined to do so.

After that, the HT decided a blanket policy that teachers wouldn’t be counter-signing any passports for children or parents from school!

Same here, I used to do it for parents I knew, but when they changed the rules and you had to provide your own details I declined any more requests. It wasnt that I didn’t trust any of the parents but if they had taken photocopies of the form including my details , that information could have been lying around for years.

It's a very idiotic rule. My DD's Irish passport application was signed by the local Garda, no problems there.
For my non-Irish passport renewal, I just needed a valid ID card, my old passport and myself. They took the biometric photos and other data there. Sorted within 20 minutes.

Ask your kids teacher or deputy head. You can do it all digitally now so they only have to log in to the passport site and confirm the image.

@Lockdownbear

Marriage certificates, birth certificates etc are still easily stolen and misused.

You don't even need to steel them, you can go into a Registry office and buy a copy of anyone's Birth Certificate or Marriage Certificate. Effectively they are public documents.

Yes, sorry that’s actually what I meant about B&M certs. It’s the ID that’s stolen isn’t it? Not the documents per se.

@pointythings

RickiTarr I still prefer the Dutch system. It's so much simpler - as long as you are registered in your local major town, all you have to do is go to the registration centre for your council (this is never far away and there is good public transport pretty much everywhere) with a photograph and your birth certificate or other ID (lots of options) and your debit card. You fill in a form, helped by a trained person at the counter (and they are really good), you pays your money, your passport is there a week later. For a small fee, they post it to you. So much less hassle. Passport fraud is not noticeably higher in the Netherlands than it is in the UK.

How do they know that you are the legitimate owner of the documents, though?

@EerieSilence

It's a very idiotic rule. My DD's Irish passport application was signed by the local Garda, no problems there. For my non-Irish passport renewal, I just needed a valid ID card, my old passport and myself. They took the biometric photos and other data there. Sorted within 20 minutes.

Sorry, I’m being hyper curious but I have the same question there: How do the Irish Guards know you are you? Couldn’t you take your cousin’s or friend’s paperwork in?

You can post them to a friend, if someone you know who meets the criteria isn't local, we did this for our friends in Germany who were sorting out their child's Uk passport.

@Lockdownbear

Are NI licences not issued from DVLA in Swansea the same as the rest of the UK?

Nope, Coleraine I think.

Counter signatures are only for First passports (security risk) and in cases where passport is lost/stolen (security risk) or massively changed appearance (security risk)

Apologies to keep going on about this. But isn't an iris scan and fingerprints a lot more secure? There wouldn't be any security risk there.

Or perhaps make it optional, those who don't want to have these biometric details taken, can keep using the old process and have countersingatories. But it's a massive hassle for everyone involved in my view

@mustlovegin

Counter signatures are only for First passports (security risk) and in cases where passport is lost/stolen (security risk) or massively changed appearance (security risk)

Apologies to keep going on about this. But isn't an iris scan and fingerprints a lot more secure? There wouldn't be any security risk there.

Or perhaps make it optional, those who don't want to have these biometric details taken, can keep using the old process and have countersingatories. But it's a massive hassle for everyone involved in my view

Well they might be but whether it’s photo or biometric data, you still need someone to verify the match at the point of first capture IYSIM?

Plus, passports are being used by employers and landlords to establish right to work and right to rent. It’s a mandatory duty to check those passports. You can’t issue biometric readers to all the potential employers and landlords. So photos - accurate, true photos are still needed - even in terms of anti-terrorism. It is as important that terrorists can’t steal an identity to rent a flat as it is that they can’t steal an identity to cross borders.

Thinking about it Irish ID cards are photocards aren’t they? Is that why the Garda can use them to satisfy themselves that you are you and stamp your passport application?

Who confirms your photo is you for the National ID card in the first place?

I hear you OP. Is ridiculous. Luckily I vaguely know a friend who teaches otherwise would be in same position.

To all those people saying ‘just ask a bank / dentist’… This doesn’t work: they say no. We got turned down by my lawyer, my bank and my pharmacist before managing to get hold of my teacher friend. Even the branch where I have banked for more than a decade won’t sign my Irish passport application despite my showing them my UK passport etc. They all say ‘you have to ask someone who knows you personally.’

The rules are waaaaay out of date.

@christdoinghisunspecifiedhobby 😆

My DF got his driving licence (full licence, you understand, not just provisional ) by sending off 5s to the post office.

@pointythings

as long as you are registered in your local major town ....

So all the UK would need would be a system of registration fir all citizens. Wonder why they don't seem to have got round to doing that ?

@mustlovegin

Aren't iris scan so much more secure?

Given that they gave up on the iris scanning technology at LHR after years of testing, it seems it might be simple but sadly not error free.

What would false negatives be handled? And , for that matter, distinguished from correct negatives ?

My mums next door neighbour (butcher) did my kids ones once. And last time I asked a neighbour who is self employed. Both accepted.

@Gladimnotcampinginthisweather

Retired people can sign if they retired from one of the professions listed. A retired teacher friend did DS'. It clearly says they can check up on counter signatories. I have never had any checked but I know someone who has. If you need a new photograph because your appearance has changed (eg you no longer look like your 16 year old self) the photo has to be countersigned.

I used to sign them as I was a teacher but now I am retired I am no longer a member of a professional body. One of the reasons why it has to be a professional.

You can’t issue biometric readers to all the potential employers and landlords

That's a fair point RickiTarr

But perhaps you can get your (subsequent) biometrics (if you lose your passport for e.g.) taken at the Post Office together with a photograph? Then everything would be sent to the Passport Office to match with the data they hold?

Obviously the first passport issued would need the signatories and the first set of biometrics. But it would be done only once. Job done

@Miranda15110

Ask your kids teacher or deputy head. You can do it all digitally now so they only have to log in to the passport site and confirm the image.

Many schools don't allow this any more for various reasons including parents demanding that teachers sign them (as opposed to asking). Also they have to have known the parent for at least two years. I was at the school for a very long time and if the parent had older children or was an ex pupil themself it was fine but some could be abusive if you said no. When I did sign them at school I gave the school address not my own.

If you know a teacher in a personal capacity that is completely different.

Have you got any friends who run their own business? If they're a Ltd company (and many one-man-bands are) then they're on the list.

Given that they gave up on the iris scanning technology at LHR after years of testing, it seems it might be simple but sadly not error free

Didn't know this FinallyHere

I wish they could improve on the technology or use a mechanism to resolve exceptions.

Many countries do use fingerprints though

I used to sign them as I was a teacher but now I am retired I am no longer a member of a professional body. One of the reasons why it has to be a professional.

@CaptainMyCaptain Retired professionals can still sign them. You don’t have to be a current member of a professional body.

The process is online now, you give the email address of your counter signature person, passport agency sends them a code and a link, they need to know the child's full name and date of birth, they don't need to share any information other than email address with the applicant.

I found this really helpful as I was able to ask friends who live too far away to actually sign a form. Also as someone who signs a few I prefer it, I've lost a passport before taking it to work to fill in a passport form, this new system is much quicker and easier.

I'm surprised at schools having a policy of not signing, I'd always be happy to sign for my students providing I'd known them the 2 years, some people won't have many people they can ask.

I don’t think teachers have a professional body, do they?!