PASSPORT COUNTERSIGNING

[theconstantheadache]

Help???

I don't know anybody to countersign my 18MO passport ???

Iv no idea who to ask as every person iv asked hasn't renewed their passport or can't sign as they don't have a profession listed...

MessAge your local MP, they will get someone on their team to! That's how I got mine

@lydia93

MessAge your local MP, they will get someone on their team to! That's how I got mine

Unless they’ve known you for 2+ years they really shouldn’t.

@LakieLady

It's a ludicrous rule imo.

Last time I renewed mine, the landlady of my local did it. A few weeks later, I signed hers (I was a local government officer at the time).

This gets harder as you get older. Most of my friends are now retired, so don't have any profession.

People who are retired can still do it based on their previous role.

Is the doctor an allowed signatory? Could your GP do it?

@VestaTilley

Is the doctor an allowed signatory? Could your GP do it?

Only if they know the OP in a personal capacity

Retired people can sign if they retired from one of the professions listed.
A retired teacher friend did DS'.
It clearly says they can check up on counter signatories. I have never had any checked but I know someone who has.
If you need a new photograph because your appearance has changed (eg you no longer look like your 16 year old self) the photo has to be countersigned.

@LakieLady

It's a ludicrous rule imo.

Last time I renewed mine, the landlady of my local did it. A few weeks later, I signed hers (I was a local government officer at the time).

This gets harder as you get older. Most of my friends are now retired, so don't have any profession.

But you only need it countersigned if you've changed dramatically in the last 10 years.

So gained or lost a shed load of weight, or had facial surgery or something. The vast majority of people are recognisable from their previous photo.

@mustlovegin

And even if you are no longer recognisable from your previous photo, your iris scan and fingerprint shouldn't change as you age I believe

Not everyone with a UK passport has had to provide either an iris scan or fingerprints.

Didn't the UK abandon iris scan technology for immigration after the London Olympics? The biometric system currently used is facial recognition based.

It’s a stupid, anachronistic rule based on outdated concepts of respectability and authority.

Doctors I think will charge you, I asked a few years ago.

Last time I had my passport renewed I asked my neighbour as she is a Civil Servant.

Why does it have to be someone in a certain profession????

@Mandalay246

It's not just a 'profession' it's anyone who has some kind of registration that they could be stripped of if they give misleading evidence. Trade body, professional registration, post office official etc.

@Boood

It’s a stupid, anachronistic rule based on outdated concepts of respectability and authority.

It really isn't.

@Boood

It’s a stupid, anachronistic rule based on outdated concepts of respectability and authority.

Its more that just a precieved respectability. Anyone who countersigns can basically be held to account by their professional body, and probably be struck off if they are found to have said they know someone when they don't, ie not acted with professional integrity.

OK a Ltd company owner, might not have a body they are signed up to. But they are putting their business name on something that could end up getting dragged through the court.

Even a publican could loose their licence for not being honest.

I'm amazed at the poster up thread who is prepared to put their name on the block for a complete stranger they know nothing about.
Remember if you sign a passport application and it turns out to be false information you could be up in court over it.

I think the current requirement for ID is much better than the olden days when yes there was an element of class about who was allowed to sign.

And I'm old enough to remember the good old days when ....

You could take out a provisional driving licence in any.old.name, no cross checking required, pass your test and hey, you have a perfectly valid ID document.

Can it still be someone self employed? Do you use a regular plumber or electrician?

Hairdresser?

Plumber, Electrition or hairdresser

So long as they were either a registered business owner or member of their trade association.

Not sure about self employed but I'm sure a limited company director can sign. So depends on the tax status of the Hairdresser etc.

Anyone who is ‘of good standing’ in the community ie doesn’t have a criminal record can sign it. It doesn’t have to be someone of a certain profession. I got my neighbour, who is a housewife, to sign my DS’.

OH signs loads , builder but Limited company.

@FinallyHere

I think the current requirement for ID is much better than the olden days when yes there was an element of class about who was allowed to sign.

And I'm old enough to remember the good old days when ....

You could take out a provisional driving licence in any.old.name, no cross checking required, pass your test and hey, you have a perfectly valid ID document.

I'm 40 (nearly 41) and from NI where we had photocards before they were implemented in England (which was in 1998 I think). I remember lots of my friends in the mid 90s sending off for a provisional licence with a fake name and date of birth and a passport photo and their granny's address and getting the fake provisional back which they then used as fake ID there didn't seem to be any checks or controls around it. The pubs usually accepted the provisional as ID. Then a few years later they would apply for another provisional with their real name to get a legit licence when they actually did the test.

Are NI licences not issued from DVLA in Swansea the same as the rest of the UK?

[quote skinschool]@RickiTarr 11 in a month's time, so we have the added issue that she will be changing school.[/quote]
@skinschool think once she is over 12, they stop asking for counter signatures on renewals, same as for adults.

The only exceptions are if your old passport is lost or stolen, or if your appearance has massively changed (not just normal growing up).

So as long as you have her old passport, worst case scenario you’ll be able to apply without a counter signature when she turns 12.

Just a hopeful thought.

@pointythings

The UK system is mad and archaic. I'm Dutch, and to get my DDs their Dutch passports at the Embassy I did need to bring a lot of ID stuff: birth certs, marriage certificate, permission from my husband, much of it needing an apostille - but I didn't need some random publican to prove who my kids were!

If you're Dutch living in the Netherlands it's even easier and again, you don't need someone to vouch for you. This is a bit of law that really needs changing to be relevant to the age we are now living in.

I suspect there are security advantages to this way of doing things and they won’t drop it just yet.

Counter signatures are only for First passports (security risk) and in cases where passport is lost/stolen (security risk) or massively changed appearance (security risk).

We still used to work solely on non-photographic ID, for everything but passports, when I came of age and it made no sense. It was very easy then to steal an entire identity. Having traceable professionals or business people confirming the identity for photographs is/was an extra plank of security. Marriage certificates, birth certificates etc are still easily stolen and misused.

What we need is a system whereby the photograph for first National ID cards, provisional driving licences or passports are verified by schools or home education officers as a matter of course and nobody gets to 18 without being issued with first photographic ID free of charge.

That would be more convenient and still secure.

Have the rules always been you've needed to be known to someone for two years? I can see from the website that that's the case now, but I could have sworn any random professional could have signed previously!

@seeyouatthecrossroads

Have the rules always been you've needed to be known to someone for two years? I can see from the website that that's the case now, but I could have sworn any random professional could have signed previously!

Yes. If anything it uses to be longer, or maybe two years just seemed longer to me when I was younger.