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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think you are lucky if....

89 replies

LemonSherbetFancies · 14/06/2021 12:36

You are 2 working parents with well paid jobs and are also able to do the school pick ups everyday?

OP posts:
GorekyPark · 15/06/2021 10:19

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TheDevils · 15/06/2021 10:31

@GorekyPark

Why are some people so offended by the acknowledgement of luck?

Because often there is very little luck involved at all. These things rarely just fall into your lap.

Acknowledging luck doesn't mean things falling into lap, quite the opposite. Luck is almost meaningless without the ability to use that to your advantage though attitude, planning and hard work.

But not acknowledging luck suggests that those who haven't been successful just haven't worked as hard as others that are.

This last year is real testament to that. Some businesses have thrived while others have floundered - you can't attribute that to just hard work.

TheDevils · 15/06/2021 10:33

@melonhead

TheDevils I totally accept some luck, but not only luck. It feels dismissive of effort.
Nobody is saying it's all luck. It's a combination. Luck also needs to be accompanied by planning, hard work and attitude
Willwebebuyingnumber11 · 15/06/2021 10:34

I wouldn’t say it’s luck as I would think people in that
Position have worked hard to get there.
I do often wonder what happens during school holidays as I know a lot of parents struggle, especially recently without holidays clubs

PrimeraVez · 15/06/2021 10:36

Surely it's all about choice?

I can do the school drop off because I chose to live in a house that is close to the school and my place of work and I chose a workplace that offers me a degree of flexibility over when I am at my desk each morning.

I can't do the school pick up because I chose a career that requires me to be attend a lot of meetings and deliver a lot of work, often at short notice, dependent on factors that I cannot control. I chose this career and the salary and all the perks that go with it, over being able to do the school pick up.

Arguably, I'm lucky that I was able to make those choices....

NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 15/06/2021 11:12

I know few people in that position. The one I do know well has worked incredibly hard to fit full time long working hours in by working 9.30 to 2.30 daily and
working 8pm - midnight every night too. That's not luck, and also while she is well paid relatively, she's taken a salary drop to work in this way.

MaMelon · 15/06/2021 11:17

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland - there is a definite and fairly significant element of luck there. Not many employers or roles allow for that level of flexibility.

NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 15/06/2021 11:19

In my circle, anecdotally, sacrificing your career to be a SAHP or very pt when kids are young often goes hand in hand with a lower paid and less flexible job once the kids are in school.

This! I know lots of people who have gone to SAHP or just a few hours a week with young kids. I stayed 4 days a week in my original role. I'm now in a position to wfh and flex my working hours to enable us to drop off and collect 3 days out of 5 while still earning the same.

NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 15/06/2021 11:19

MaMelon

Friend in question left employment to set up her own business to allow this. Not luck.

TheDevils · 15/06/2021 11:20

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

I know few people in that position. The one I do know well has worked incredibly hard to fit full time long working hours in by working 9.30 to 2.30 daily and working 8pm - midnight every night too. That's not luck, and also while she is well paid relatively, she's taken a salary drop to work in this way.
Surely the luck element here is that she's lucky her employer allows her to work in this way? That doesn't mean she doesn't work hard and hasn't planned things in advance BUT she is fortunate her employer supports that. It's also fortunate that she can afford to take a drop in salary.
NoIDontWatchLoveIsland · 15/06/2021 11:20

I work flexibly but how I have achieved this is through working my way up to a senior level where my skills are highly in demand and I am at a level where I don't have a "boss" controlling my hours.

MaMelon · 15/06/2021 11:22

If you set up your own business that doesn’t depend on standard business hours to operate then that’s different obviously.

TheDevils · 15/06/2021 11:25

riend in question left employment to set up her own business to allow this. Not luck

So you don't think there is any element of luck or chance in this decision?
How has her business faired during covid? Is she lucky enough to work in sector that hasn't been effected or unlucky enough to work in a particular area impacted by an unprecedented pandemic?

Are my friends who work in the hospitality and entertainment industry just not working hard enough?

PurpleBiro21 · 15/06/2021 11:34

I’m in an enviable position re childcare and employment.

I agree it’s luck, planning and hard work.

We’re lucky that we were able to hunt, be offered and take advantage of opportunities that allow us to be in this position.

Not everything in life is an either/or, most instances are a combination of events.

cancancan · 15/06/2021 11:35

I tell myself quite regularly that im lucky that both DH and I are working from home and are able to do the school run..... I tell myself this regularly because its the silver lining to the very grey cloud of hating my job!
I can't change my job, I've had to put any hope of anything else on hold until DD is older. But yes I am lucky (as is she) that she doesn't ever have to go into after school club or to a childminders like I did as a child.

imumme · 15/06/2021 12:16

Sometimes it's luck, but sometimes not.

Luck is (according to the dictionary at least) success or failure brought about by chance rather than through one's actions.

So with that in mind, no it's not luck. I worked hard to pass my qualifications to become a teacher. I chose teaching as a career because I wanted a child friendly job. I chose to work in a college because it gave me the flexibility I needed. None of this happened by chance. It was all the results of choices I've made throughout my life.

I guess you could say I was lucky to know what I wanted to do in life, but again my parents spent a long time talking to me about jobs and careers as a child. I did consider lots of other careers, visited schools etc etc to work out what I wanted.

Incidentally, as I mentioned earlier, I took a pay cut to work in the college. This didn't come about by chance. It was a decision I made to earn less money so I could prioritise picking up my children after school each day.

Maybe the luck lies in there being a job being advertised. But then, if that's true surely everything then is luck?

LuaDipa · 15/06/2021 12:25

I feel very lucky, and in my case I fully accept that it is luck. I start work early and often work late, but many employers would not allow this work pattern and it’s no sacrifice for extra time with my rapidly growing kids.

TheDevils · 15/06/2021 12:38

Luck is (according to the dictionary at least) success or failure brought about by chance rather than through one's actions.

In career development terms we tend to use the term 'chance events' as well as luck but we acknowledge that luck or chance also needs someone to possess a whole load of particular attributes in order for it to turn into success. By working hard, being positive, resilient, willing to take a risk etc. you are putting yourself in the best position to make the most of luck or chance.

So with that in mind, no it's not luck. I worked hard to pass my qualifications to become a teacher. I chose teaching as a career because I wanted a child friendly job. I chose to work in a college because it gave me the flexibility I needed. None of this happened by chance. It was all the results of choices I've made throughout my life.

Can you honestly say that luck or chance didn't contribute at all? What about the fact you were born in a time and a country where education for girls is valued? That you had supportive parents, a school that allowed you to flourish, that the college you work at had job vacancies, ........of course there is an element of luck or chance in everything that we do!

I guess you could say I was lucky to know what I wanted to do in life, but again my parents spent a long time talking to me about jobs and careers as a child. I did consider lots of other careers, visited schools etc etc to work out what I wanted.

You are very lucky to have parents who did that. I've worked as a careers adviser and know for a fact that many young people don't have that level of support at home.

Incidentally, as I mentioned earlier, I took a pay cut to work in the college. This didn't come about by chance. It was a decision I made to earn less money so I could prioritise picking up my children after school each day.

You are lucky that you can do that. That option isn't available to many working parents.

Maybe the luck lies in there being a job being advertised. But then, if that's true surely everything then is luck?

There is an element of luck and chance in everything we do.

I worked so hard all my life but I can acknowledge where luck and chance have played a part - not just in a good way. My mum dying on the morning I was supposed to be interviewed for my dream job is one example.

I can also identify times where I've made the most of chance and luck and used them to my advantage.

Acknowledging luck and chance does not detract form your hard work in any way.

Yesreallyreally · 15/06/2021 12:40

@NonagonInfinityOpensTheDoor I agree with this, well said

Seriouslymole · 15/06/2021 13:32

@NonagonInfinityOpensTheDoor

Urgh I hate the “I’ve worked bloody hard” statement. You may have, but that implies that anyone else not in your position hasn’t and most often that is highly untrue and offensive. My parents were the hardest workers I knew but due to long hours in multiple jobs to keep a roof over our heads it often meant I would have to come home alone last year of primary school (after my Nan passed away away and couldn’t collect me) and most of the time in high school. Just because we struggled doesn’t mean they weren’t hard workers, just had a whole set of different circumstances to the fortunate ones who also worked hard and ended up in a different position. Education, socio-economic background etc all play a part.
Totally, totally agree with this. I will be honest, I work less hard in my "senior" job than I did when I was working my way up. I am exceedingly lucky to have had the parents who encouraged me to do the things that I did and encouraged me to work hard at school. I am lucky that I made the connections I did in the job that I did to enable me to get the promotions that I did. Less lucky that it's the travel sector and I'm increasingly likely to have a lot more time on my hands soon.. Lucky that I married an amazing man who has also been lucky, and competent, in his career choices, and who is an exceptionally hands-on parent.

So YANBU OP, I am very lucky and I am grateful every day for it.

Iceniii · 15/06/2021 13:43

Luck may be that these jobs are advertised, but they are open to anyone to apply for, so are they opportunity instead? People who have planned and worked towards a goal can make a play towards that opoutunity.

I guess I could consider myself lucky that I grew up on benifits, had a father I rarely saw. Education wasn't overly valued. Growing up poor meant I got a grant to go to a crappy poly and get my first degree because I wanted to be able to support my self and future children. Not sure if it's luck or taking an opportunity.

What about the fact you were born in a time and a country where education for girls is valued? are you saying everyone in this country is lucky, but only some took up the opoutunity?

TheDevils · 15/06/2021 13:56

Luck may be that these jobs are advertised, but they are open to anyone to apply for, so are they opportunity instead? People who have planned and worked towards a goal can make a play towards that opoutunity.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Those who have planned, worked hard towards a particular goal are then more able to take advantage of chance opportunities.

I guess I could consider myself lucky that I grew up on benifits, had a father I rarely saw. Education wasn't overly valued. Growing up poor meant I got a grant to go to a crappy poly and get my first degree because I wanted to be able to support my self and future children.Not sure if it's luck or taking an opportunity.*

You could be describing me.
I see my success as a combination of hard work, planning and luck.
I'm now a senior academic at a university and i can pin point exactly where chance/luck played a part but that doesn't mean I haven't worked hard!!

What about the fact you were born in a time and a country where education for girls is valued? are you saying everyone in this country is lucky, but only some took up the opoutunity?

There are degrees of luck obviously and this is a very simplistic explanation ( I do a lot of research on social mobility so I understand the various levels of inequality which exists in our education system) but ultimately every young person in this country can access education free of charge between the ages of 4 and 18 which is a very fortunate position to be in. But in most cases this is meaningless unless you are willing to put the work in.

This why it is a combination of factors.

Iquitit · 16/06/2021 09:01

Surely it's all about choice?

Yes, ultimately I suppose it is about choices, but which choices are available and workable to us as individuals also relies on other people's choices too.
I didn't have the range of choices open to me once I became a single parent, that I did as part of a couple. I became a single parent because of someone else's choice to leave and not honour the commitment made in any way, shape or form.
That choice of someone else removed some choices for me full stop as although yes, they were still there, the situation I was in meant I couldn't access them, or wasn't in a position to even know they existed in the first place.

I have made choices since then, obviously, but they were limited to what was feasible, so working every hour I could, meaning I was seen as a reliable and hard worker, was a choice I made within the scope of the choices available to me. That led to me having a good work record, and excellent references to my advantage. But at that time employers (at least here, in low paid jobs) were reluctant to take on single parents, I consider myself lucky that I had a prospective employer that was willing (or desperate enough!) To give me the opportunity to prove myself.

And yes I did work hard, and still do, but the work I've done over the years isn't as valued or respected by society as some is, therefore doesn't carry the same in terms of reward.

For example, I can not afford to give up work and finance a vet degree. Does that opportunity exist? Yes, of course it does, but I'm not in a position to take that opportunity. I am however in a position to support my DD in doing that - but it will largely also depend on other people's choices - if they choose to give her extra tuition at this stage to catch up on what she missed during covid etc, if they choose that she can be funded to attend university.

For my part I've chosen to do vocational education through my work place, I'm lucky in the respect that my employer chose to pay for it, as I couldn't, they probably chose to based on my work record and that's because I do work hard, but I'm also lucky in the respect that I was given the opportunity to work hard and get that reputation - again the choice of someone else to give me the opportunity to do that.
It will benefit me as I'll be more qualified and command more money - but I'll have to work at it.

So a combination of factors.

The difference is I'm coming at this as someone who's pretty much always done low paid work, it doesn't require the academic level of training that some jobs do, but that doesn't mean that it requires any less effort, or reliance upon luck, or reliance upon others choices that other roles do.

It's the idea that someone in low paid, low academic work just hasn't worked hard enough that I find offensive, sure, some people don't work hard, but it's not a given that if you do, you will flourish and if you don't, then you won't. I know a few people who are quite frankly lazy and entitled, but their parents have built a business that they've walked into the top of - they haven't worked hard to get there.

imumme · 16/06/2021 12:14

Well put @Iquitit.

That's what I was trying to say, but better!!

QwertyGirly · 16/06/2021 12:19

Some luck, some it's just career choice. Teachers who work full time will never be able to pick up their child from school (unless they work at the same school). Many people chose a career (and love their career) but it may involve shift work, or long hours therefore won't be able to do this.

Is it really a choice? yes it is in a way, as there is a choice factor in a career, but sometimes it's just that you might have an understanding employer who shows flexibility and allows start early/finish work early situation. That's luck, unless you say that everyone has an infinite choice with their jobs which is not the case.

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