To be irritated by the Londoner exodus to my town?

[thesecondnamegame]

I've been priced out of my Greater Manchester town by the London diaspora. Anybody who knows the area will know which town I mean. My tatty council town centre terrace is worth 300k. A load of Londoners came up after the BBC moved to Manchester. Half the kids in my kid's school's parents are from London and they love to make sure you know that. House prices have become ridiculous and are in a different world to the rest of Greater Manchester. It's ridiculous as it used to be a very unremarkable market town (albiet with not much to it) and now it's gone all 'naice' and I'm having to move 10 miles away because it's reaching the surrounding towns and I simply cannot afford to live here and I want to buy a property. It annoys me, I keep imagining somebody who had a London salary and bought a house in London, sold it, and came up here and bought a house 3 times bigger for the same price as their smaller London home. It just seems like they cheated. There are no school places either, because a lot of the Londoner's chose this particular town for the schools. The catchments are bloody tiny, I know somebody who lives in a village about 4 miles away. The schools in this town are the closest schools. No school would take her child and she ended up having to home educate for months.

All my relatives who bought properties or private rented have had to leave, even those who went to uni and got great jobs.

@Tealightsandd

You continuously miss my point, over and over. Somebody who bought a modest London house 20 years ago and has literally made hundreds of thousands should not be allowed to then come somewhere else with a complete different house price climate and buy a McMansion. If we insist on living in a capitalist hellhole, housing at least shouldn't be an investment. Instead, said person should ideally be able to use an increased salary that they should have gained over the 20 years to upgrade their house depending on their needs.

I haven't once said those born in London who DIDN'T get the opportunity to buy are privileged. However, as things stand at the moment, it is mainly London where the largest amounts of equity are being generated.

I wouldn’t worry about it to much OP Manchester still has a very very long way to go before it gets close to catching up to London prices!

I know London has it the worst in the respect of people being forced out, so why can't be talk about how to prevent it being spread to other areas? Find a way to fix the situation in London instead.

If there were more jobs outside London there would be less pressure on the London housing market,

Oh, hang on...

A major part of the solution (for London and everywhere else) OP, is for the government and local authorities to build and buy more social housing. Lots of it.

People don't need overpriced shoddily constructed new builds. They need stable affordable homes - with flexibility to move areas if they want.

What we don't need is schemes that inflate the house price bubble - pushing housing further out of reach for many people, like Rishi Sunak's stamp duty holiday and Help to Buy. Think of all that tax lost to the taxpayer - tax that could've gone towards genuinely affordable housing - lost by the stamp duty holiday.

@thesecondnamegame

‘Somebody born and raised in London who was able to go to uni and go into a job on a London salary is incredibly privileged.’

1. Anyone can go to uni in London. Most people move to go to uni no?
2. Going to uni isn’t luck. It’s easier for some than others but it’s the work you put on to get there
3. Uni in London will live you bigger debts
4. People with jobs on London salaries pay a disproportionate amount of their earnings on rent, making it harder to get on the property ladder at all.
5. YANBU though, I get it.

@sambaa

Do you understand what a discussion forum is? Concepts and ideas are, shock horror, discussed.

@thesecondnamegame

You clearly just used the word 'nurse' as a guilt tripping attempt and I pulled you up on that, not having this argument. Ta.

Let’s start at the beginning. Do you understand why ALL THE PLACES (in the whole wide world) need nurses and teachers and firemen and paramedics? Even in London? Yes or no?

I think it's everywhere isn't it? I'm
Scotland and work in property and it used to be that anything in excess of valuation was good now it's 30-50K over valuation. Then another house goes up for sale a few doors down for the price the house sold for. That one sale bumps up all the prices in the nearby vicinity.

I haven't lived in London for over 20 years, I still sound like I'm from London/Home Counties. I left for my then h's job, I now live with my dp and I know the lives of us are contributing to rising prices here but we needed to buy something, wasn't our fault as respective spouses called time on our marriages. People who relocate for work are not the same as second home owners!

@RickiTarr

Ergh, yes, But if you look back at my post, you will see that I wasn't talking about people getting onto the housing ladder to be able to live and work in a certain place but instead expressing that I don't believe equity earned in an extortionate area by specific household should then be able to be used to buy said household luxurious house in a completely different area with a vastly different property market.

HTH.

In fairness the fact that everything is based in London and everyone wants to be there has forced a lot of Londoners out too. Weve made it unaffordable for them so they're bound to branch out.

should not be allowed to then come somewhere else with a complete different house price climate and buy a McMansion

But you don't seem to be able to explain exactly how this ban would work!

@thesecondnamegame

What's going to happen if people leaving London for bigger houses is continuously encouraged? Everywhere else is going to end up the same due to the exodus and there will be more and more property in London snapped up by offshore investors.

The current situation of people leaving London (whether that be because they are being forced out, or for other reasons) in droves is what the Tories and offshore investors what, more property for them. It is playing right in to their hands. They have their eyes on Manchester as well, it is going the same way. New skyscrapers are being thrown up and left empty.

One of the problems I've seen is actually supply and demand for houses not matching the demographics.

By that I mean, builders will build 1st time buyer properties to satisfy planning and expensive 'executive' homes for maximum profit. This is coupled with an older generation downsizing and inflating prices in the middle of the market too. What this means you don't have enough houses in the middle of the market which distorts the market and prevents people moving gradually up the housing ladder within the same area. The whole thing screws up the balance within an area with families with young kids unable to afford to move up from the 1st time buyer properties they scrapped together to just afford and the only ones able to afford the executive homes being people with large deposits (from equity often made down south / inheritance).

I find that DH and I have really been the exception to the rule but thats only been because he was in the right industry and was very good at his job. Few others our age have been able to do the same. For the first time I know some of the very outstanding local primaries are starting to be undersubscribed and the catchment area is increasing as the population gets older move generally.

Its a really complex situation which isn't caused by one thing alone but a load of reasons creating something of a perfect storm.

[quote thesecondnamegame]@Tealightsandd

You continuously miss my point, over and over. Somebody who bought a modest London house 20 years ago and has literally made hundreds of thousands should not be allowed to then come somewhere else with a complete different house price climate and buy a McMansion. If we insist on living in a capitalist hellhole, housing at least shouldn't be an investment. Instead, said person should ideally be able to use an increased salary that they should have gained over the 20 years to upgrade their house depending on their needs.

I haven't once said those born in London who DIDN'T get the opportunity to buy are privileged. However, as things stand at the moment, it is mainly London where the largest amounts of equity are being generated.[/quote]
Why are so many 'McMansions' being built?

Have a word with local authority planning and government on that one.

1. If you want to arrange it so I can afford the 1.5 MILLION it would cost for an average family house in my area then be my guest 😂 otherwise I will need to move out as we are overcrowded (don't worry we are only moving to zone 5 )

1. Most people in London don't have masses of equity. Some do but millenials my age are just trying to find anywhere at all to live.

1. I would prefer it if prices were less in London (ie so I could buy a house!) And that meant there s less disparity in prices, but average London workers cannot control that.

1. I do however, agree that seeing property as an investment is not good for the country, this will be hard to solve as you need to start with the foreign investors buying half of Knightsbridge etc.

1. If I told you I could buy a house I Manchester 3 x the size of my current place that would sound impressive. However 3 times the size of my current place is a 3 bed semi so maybe that's what they are saying 😂

@blueeyedgirl21
It's awful. Some are young and plan to just stay temporarily, put up with it for the experience of London or to save up money before going home. But a lot of others aren't. And they're trapped. Too poor or ill or bound by caring responsibilities to easily move out of London. (And concerns over the 'welcoming' locals elsewhere...)

People are threatened with sanctions by jobcentres that don't care about someone's commute. They're desperate and often exploited.

Where do you live, out of interest? I’m
from Greater Manchester originally.
My family moved to Cornwall years and years ago and it’s exactly the same. My sister has a good job and two kids and her relationship has broken down. There are zero properties to rent. She’s been looking since before Christmas and as soon as they come up and she contacts them, they’ve gone. She’s had to move in with my parents, so very unfair.

A load of Londoners came up after the BBC moved to Manchester.

As a Northerner turned Southerner who then became a Londoner I'm confused about this. One of the things that successive governments should have done is invested more in the North. So employers like the BBC moving up North is a good thing isn't it?

Pre Covid distractions I used to think it would be a good idea if Westminster relocated to a Northern city -at least whilst it was being refurbished. This would help with local employment and get MPs to focus on the difference. But relocation of employers like the BBC is no good if it causes local resentment.

On the Londoner point I also find it confusing. I was born up North but moved aged 6 and went to primary and secondary school in Sussex. Then worked in London until a couple of years ago when I moved back to a village 5 miles from where I went to school.
I actually heard people in one of the village club things referring to us as DFLs invading. ( Down from London). The people having that conversation were born and schooled in Kent and Austria and they knew I went to the local comp- unlike them !
Despite the fact I grew up 5 miles away and know the area better than either of them - I'm the one not allowed to be here as I left and moved to London previously before returning.

It did make me realise that if you live in London you are damned by many. I think it applies even if you don't profit on property prices.

I do wonder how long you have to live in London for the label to happen? Five years would make you a DFL. One year -you're probably still a DFL for ever? Six months? Eventually I decided a couple of months probably makes you a DFL. So now I proudly refer to myself as I Londoner even though I went to the local school here, and the others in the village didn't.

I think hostility to individuals who move from any different village, city ,county or country should be resisted. Blame governments for regional wealth inequality not those who have to move to avoid redundancy.

@SoupDragon

Somebody born and raised in London who was able to go to uni and go into a job on a London salary is incredibly privileged.

London jobs aren't limited to those "born and raised in London".

In practice a lot of them are, especially internships, because londonors can live at home with mum and dad and save on astronomical rent and transport, thus get on the housing ladder. Whereas youngsters coming from outside London can barely afford to there let along save to buy.

That said, I do agree it’s the government’s fault, not individuals.

[quote thesecondnamegame]@RickiTarr

Ergh, yes, But if you look back at my post, you will see that I wasn't talking about people getting onto the housing ladder to be able to live and work in a certain place but instead expressing that I don't believe equity earned in an extortionate area by specific household should then be able to be used to buy said household luxurious house in a completely different area with a vastly different property market.

HTH.[/quote]
What about people who have money through inheritance or winning the lottery are they allowed to move or are they also not welcome?

I’m a Londoner forced out by increasing prices and a ridiculous rise in crime in my local area. We needed to move house and simply couldn’t get anywhere for our money

Don't move to Greater Manchester or West Yorkshire if you're wanting to avoid crime. We have higher serious crime rates up here than in London. The highest in the UK

@NanaNorasNaughtyKnickers I suggested taxation, it would be calculated through somehow comparing the equity rates in the 2 areas. It would of course only apply in the case of equity. Somebody moving out of London for their first home would be irrelevant as they have no equity in the first place. Another potential exemption would be somebody who owns and is moving for work but doesn't have hundred's of thousands in equity through their previously owned house. The tax rate would keep more people in London and there would hopefully be a shift to not seeing housing as an investment or a case of getting lucky by being in the right place at the right time. Keeping people in London would prevent offshore investors snapping up the properties. It wouldn't just apply to London, somebody moving from a high cost area of Manchester to the North East with hundreds of thousands in equity would face the same tax.

Social housing is the answer.

It offers housing that is genuinely affordable with stability - but also flexibility, so that people can move across the country if they want or need to.

We also should never have allowed mortgage borrowing to go above 4 times a single salary. It's led to out of control housing prices.

[quote thesecondnamegame]@NanaNorasNaughtyKnickers I suggested taxation, it would be calculated through somehow comparing the equity rates in the 2 areas. It would of course only apply in the case of equity. Somebody moving out of London for their first home would be irrelevant as they have no equity in the first place. Another potential exemption would be somebody who owns and is moving for work but doesn't have hundred's of thousands in equity through their previously owned house. The tax rate would keep more people in London and there would hopefully be a shift to not seeing housing as an investment or a case of getting lucky by being in the right place at the right time. Keeping people in London would prevent offshore investors snapping up the properties. It wouldn't just apply to London, somebody moving from a high cost area of Manchester to the North East with hundreds of thousands in equity would face the same tax.[/quote]
If this is really indicative of the thought processes of the average person from Manchester then no wonder you earn less than Londoners 😂😂😂 ( I am of course joking)

In practice a lot of them are, especially internships, because londonors can live at home with mum and dad and save on astronomical rent and transport, thus get on the housing ladder.

Well except for the 165,000 homeless Londoners.