To be irritated by the Londoner exodus to my town?

[thesecondnamegame]

I've been priced out of my Greater Manchester town by the London diaspora. Anybody who knows the area will know which town I mean. My tatty council town centre terrace is worth 300k. A load of Londoners came up after the BBC moved to Manchester. Half the kids in my kid's school's parents are from London and they love to make sure you know that. House prices have become ridiculous and are in a different world to the rest of Greater Manchester. It's ridiculous as it used to be a very unremarkable market town (albiet with not much to it) and now it's gone all 'naice' and I'm having to move 10 miles away because it's reaching the surrounding towns and I simply cannot afford to live here and I want to buy a property. It annoys me, I keep imagining somebody who had a London salary and bought a house in London, sold it, and came up here and bought a house 3 times bigger for the same price as their smaller London home. It just seems like they cheated. There are no school places either, because a lot of the Londoner's chose this particular town for the schools. The catchments are bloody tiny, I know somebody who lives in a village about 4 miles away. The schools in this town are the closest schools. No school would take her child and she ended up having to home educate for months.

All my relatives who bought properties or private rented have had to leave, even those who went to uni and got great jobs.

Look at the double standards.

A PP refers to locals. Then she speaks of 'Londoners' moving out. How does she define local? Born and bred? Well then the 'Londoners' moving there are not Londoners. Not all of them anyway. If born and bred isn't how you define it, if it's by where you currently live, then the newcomers are also now locals.

Housing is still a profit-making model, there’s nothing socialist about it. The basic framework of using taxes to fund housing is socialist, yes, but that’s about it.

@thesecondnamegame it is a bit of a ‘aren’t they so lucky we moved here! How did they cope with out that organic cookery workshop Luella puts on every other Friday, almost free of charge! (£10 per child 😂)

I come from a very long line of poor SE Londoners on both sides (plenty of Cazelets in Bermondsey at least 200 years ago), many of whom were decanted out of London into social housing in the New Towns after the war, when that part of London was definitely not a desirable place to be. My children were born and brought up in London, but I don't expect them to be able to buy houses here in my lifetime. I don't rant about all the incomers pushing up the prices in my home town though (although of course the whole of SE1 is mine, all mine...) Movement in and out of London has always been cyclical. Other towns and cities will have to get used to it - I'm afraid it comes with the territory with waxing and waning prosperity/jobs/desirability. I agree that our housing market is broken, but I blame Thatcher and Right to Buy for that, not individuals moving for jobs or a better quality of life.

House inflation due to an increase in jobs and industry in an area has always happened. So has house prices dropping when a big employer or industry leaves an area. You happen to live in an area where there’s a new big employer. Yes I get it’s crap for you, but it’s nothing new, it’s just your first taste of it.

To be fair I @KingdomScrolls I really feel for people who grow up in very normal working class London families and have no chance of living near their own families bringing their kids up there etc because of out pricing. How is a nursing home worker and a roofer, for a random example of a working couple, going to afford a mortgage in the east end or anywhere really. Not fair

Most Tory politicians are in the top 5% at the very least. It’s in their vested interest for house prices and rents to rise sky high.

Brexit was never about stopping rocketing house prices and controlling population and stress on public services. It was about being able to cop out of the EU now clamping down on corporate tax avoidance which would have harmed the top 1%. It was about being able to cop out of other standards such as working rights, zero hour contracts etc. And of course it was about short term profit.

Put simply, voting for the Tories is a vote for trickle up economics. Every time they are voted back into power, the slice of the top 5% gets proportionally bigger and bigger.

Laughing at the notion I expect people to only go to an approved list of areas.

That's the exact bloody issue. It's those who come up with organisation's like the BBC, flock to certain towns such as Ramsbottom and Altrincham, (might as well forget the north-east even exists in this context) create London-lite and then bleat on about how much they have brought to the north as a whole.

I have met this type, they absolutely exist.

Oasis.
Both Mancunian Gallagher brothers moved to London. Noel has since moved on (to a leafy shire, not back to Manchester). I'm not sure where Liam now lives. Neither consider themselves Londoners. They're Mancunians who lived in London.

They are allowed to move from London (and elsewhere). So are Londoners allowed to move to Manchester (if they want to brave the insular locals).

I wish they'd get rid of the grammar schools round here though.

Pisses me off that a child who lives a few miles out of town is out of catchment but kids from Stockport, Bolton etc can commute to the grammars. Absolute disgrace. I like the concept of grammars but they need to be everywhere or nowhere.

@Tealightsandd

Like you haven't seen the other threads on this. Including the one currently ongoing.

People have been coming from Manchester and all over the UK to London to price out Londoners for years. Now those same people (at least half, if not more, leaving are NOT Londoners) are moving back out.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Welcome to the 'levelling up'.

^ This

I get being angry at second home owners sucking the life out of a community but what's stopping you moving to london getting a london salary and then buying a bigger house?

But I am also aware that there are many Londoners who earn £80k plus a year

Even those would struggle to buy in many parts now.

Lots of people are stuck on the ladder because every increasing prices only benefit a small few. The housing market is a shitshow.

I'm just tired of feeling that being from or living in London is something you have to apologise for all the time on here.

I know, it really annoys me as lots of people think Londoners are all privileged & live like they are in made in chelsea. London has also changed quite a bit & many places are very different from 20 yrs ago. I'm a Londoner because it's the only place by immigrant parents could afford & I grew up against a backdrop of crime including drugs & prostitution. #somuchprivilege!

Londoners literally can't afford London anymore - I understand how frustrating it feels, but Londoners are going through the same thing in their hometown.

@thesecondnamegame

I wish they'd get rid of the grammar schools round here though.

Pisses me off that a child who lives a few miles out of town is out of catchment but kids from Stockport, Bolton etc can commute to the grammars. Absolute disgrace. I like the concept of grammars but they need to be everywhere or nowhere.

Why not aim for “everywhere” then?

You sound incredibly bitter.

@thesecondnamegame

Laughing at the notion I expect people to only go to an approved list of areas.

That's the exact bloody issue. It's those who come up with organisation's like the BBC, flock to certain towns such as Ramsbottom and Altrincham, (might as well forget the north-east even exists in this context) create London-lite and then bleat on about how much they have brought to the north as a whole.

I have met this type, they absolutely exist.

As others have said, when the BBC does these moves, sometimes the only other option is redundancy, we lose London weighting on our salaries if we move, and the majority of BBC staff are not earning six figures. If people are bleating on about how they’ve improved the area because they’re from London they’re clearly bellends but they’re a symptom, not a cause, of the problem. Plus, the BBC does create roles in the cities it moves to (yes, it would be better if it did this without shipping people up from London) so it is a positive for the local area in that sense

BBC employees get a London weighted salary when they live and work in London - they didn't get to keep that extra when they moved out of London.

Also lots of those people who move out of London didn't grow up there etc - they moved there originally because the careers they wanted were based there - now lots of employers (not just the BBC) are using new technology to base themselves away from the capital it means a lot of people can go back to their home town and areas to live and work.

Yes, I don’t understand this obsession with ‘Londoners’ who ‘earn high salaries’. Lots of ‘Londoners’, especially those who work for organisations like the BBC, aren’t born and bred there. They’re people who move there temporarily or otherwise for jobs or opportunities. And as you say any pay premium is nearly always tied to living and working in London. Not that any premium is universal - my starting salary when I moved to London was about £10k p/a.

As someone who grew up in a fairly backward rural area and moved to London for work, I will say I’ve observed - just within people in my school year and friendship group - a huge amount of bitterness towards people who moved to London or other big cities from people who stayed put.

I think Grammars are a disgrace. Kids are tutored like crazy.....guess what there is no tutor sitting beside them in class.

create London-lite and then bleat on about how much they have brought to the north as a whole.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. It happened in London. As you acknowledge.

You seem to define born and bred as what makes someone 'local'. So most of those people, by your own definition, are not Londoners.

Some of the BBC staff are even from Manchester. They are returning locals.

If it was a problem - if people think it is so wrong, locals being priced out, why the silence when it was happening to Londoners? No one complained or said it was a problem. In fact quite the opposite. Priced out locals were told to suck it up.

And - their pricing out was actually resented by people elsewhere. They wanted some of London's 'investment'. Now you have it. This is the reality of 'levelling up'. What people were so jealous of.

@RickiTarr

Why not aim for everywhere? What the hell is that supposed to mean? Sorry, I forgot that I'm the education minister, I'll go and get a load built.

Grammar schools are a good concept, for clever working class kids to be successful. But it's stupid just having them in random areas dotted about here and there, it causes people to flock to the towns and leads to huge school place shortages. There are literally children round here that have to be home educated because there are no school places ffs. So yes, I'm rightfully bitter thank you very much.

@Tealightsandd

Look at the double standards.

A PP refers to locals. Then she speaks of 'Londoners' moving out. How does she define local? Born and bred? Well then the 'Londoners' moving there are not Londoners. Not all of them anyway. If born and bred isn't how you define it, if it's by where you currently live, then the newcomers are also now locals.

Someone pointed out a few months ago (possibly on Mumsnet, can’t remember) that people move to London for the first time and the very same day start referring to themselves as “Londoners”, but if you tried that in most of the other major cities in the UK it would go down like a bucket of cold sick.

Fucking hell

@sadperson16 That's a good point, rich kids getting expensive tutoring. But at least if they were in every local authority it wouldn't just be specific towns getting loads of people moving there for the grammar schools, and then filling up the comps to be way over capacity when they don't get in.

With grammars, they should be everywhere or shouldn't be a thing at all.

[quote thesecondnamegame]@RickiTarr

Why not aim for everywhere? What the hell is that supposed to mean? Sorry, I forgot that I'm the education minister, I'll go and get a load built.

Grammar schools are a good concept, for clever working class kids to be successful. But it's stupid just having them in random areas dotted about here and there, it causes people to flock to the towns and leads to huge school place shortages. There are literally children round here that have to be home educated because there are no school places ffs. So yes, I'm rightfully bitter thank you very much.[/quote]
It means instead of saying, as you did in your previous post, ”I wish they'd get rid of the grammar schools round here though.” why don’t you say “I wish they’d reintroduce grammar schools everywhere so everyone could benefit equally”?

Yes I don’t need confirmation of how bitter you are. We can all hear it.

I find threads like this infuriating. Of course YABU.

I live in London. But I am not a Londoner so I never benefited from 'privileged' upbringing as another poster snuggly suggested. I am an EU National, partner is from Middlesbrough. We have worked hard and continue to do so. Personally have no intention to leave London unless it is to move back to the EU. But I find this view of Londoners really upsetting. Many pay obscene amounts to live here (%of wage to housing is a lot worse in London) and pay huge amounts of tax that presumably everyone benefits from. But of course you want them to do continue paying but not come to your towns.

But god, those bloody BBC high-ups type who've sold their big London house for an even bigger house and go bleating on about how cheap it was and how thrilled they are with it in a completely tone deaf manner, and are smug about what they've bought to the area

How do you know these people are Londoners though? Or does just moving from London make you a Londoner?