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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Discipline for talking back

28 replies

stardustsprinkles · 04/06/2021 22:15

I need to know if I am being unreasonable here as I am losing all perspective.

Backstory is my partner has struggled with anxiety and depression for a while now. Our relationship is all but over and we have been in separate rooms (his choice) for a long time now. It has also been a very long time since he last physically even touched me. All very sad and awful and I am having counselling to come to terms with it all to help me try to move forward.

Anyway tonight our daughter who is 5 in August was being a pain. She was very argumentative and uncooperative at bedtime (that he was doing) and she kept backchatting, Several time outs later she eventually got to bed. I have just come up and seen he has removed all books and toys from her bedroom. I asked him about it and he said 'he won't be spoken to like that by her' and has told her no tv all weekend and that he had removed the books and toys too. He said we never discipline her and her behaviour is getting worse. I called him out on it as said I thought it was extreme taking away tv and all books and toys and she is only 4. Her behaviour was not acceptable by any means but am I unreasonable in thinking he went too far with this punishment? No tv fine but to lose books and toys too.....

As soon as I called him on it he went and put the boxes of books/toys back on the floor saying 'happy now' and I know tomorrow will be an argument about how I undermine him. I just don't think it's necessary to threaten and traumatise her with punishments to control her. Help me with some perspective please!

OP posts:
IHaveBrilloHair · 04/06/2021 22:18

Remove him from your life, he sounds awful.

cauliflowersqueeze · 04/06/2021 22:20

Sort out a plan in private in advance because this will happen again. I wouldn’t undermine him.

EvenMoreFuriousVexation · 04/06/2021 22:21

"no tv for a month" is stupidly OTT, yes.

There was another point I was going to make but I realised I'm starring in a carnival.

Wolfiefan · 04/06/2021 22:21

He went completely OTT.
You say he’s struggling. Is he actually diagnosed and undergoing treatment?
TBH he undermined himself by throwing a strop and putting the stuff back then blaming you. Confused

toolazytothinkofausername · 04/06/2021 22:22

YANBU. Taking away TV, books, and toys is ridiculous! Far too harsh for a 4 year old.

suspiria777 · 04/06/2021 22:22

My mum was always going on about "backchat" and even now in my thirties I'm not really sure what she meant. What exactly was your DD doing? What did she say to him that was so awful? Unless she was effing and jeffing it does seem extreme...

EvenMoreFuriousVexation · 04/06/2021 22:25

Your time may not be the same time as my time, but it's still time.

Speakuptomakeyourselfheard · 04/06/2021 22:26

I think he was totally over the top, and that he should speak to your daughter in the morning and tell her that she was very, very, naughty, and made him really cross, but now that he's had time to calm down, he thinks perhaps her punishment was a bit too much, and she can have the toys but no TV. After all, what's she supposed to do all weekend without toys or TV? And if she doesn't have anything to do, she's just going to whinge and misbehave again, just making the whole situation even worse.

BarbarianMum · 04/06/2021 22:27

Agree with @cauliflowersqueeze. Agree consequences in private, before you need them and stick to them. And be needs to accept that sometimes they just wont work and you can't keep upping them til they do (this is easier said th8done - I've done the "no tv for a month" thing before then had to admit I was wrong).

BarbarianMum · 04/06/2021 22:27

he needs

PlanDeRaccordement · 04/06/2021 22:30

Neither of you is BU.
His punishment is too extreme, YANBU

But he’s had a rough bedtime on top of struggling with a serious health condition, so it is understandable that he’s cracked a bit, so he’s not knowingly BU as in he’s probably at the end of his tether.

I agree with pp who said you two need a plan in advance for backchat l first, although your DC is only 4, the fact her parents relationship is “all but over” has to be affecting her deeply. She will act out to get attention and reassurance, even negative attention is attention to a child that is overwhelmed and feels sidelined. So you need to give her some slack and compassion. Second, if one of you is struggling with her, don’t leave the other hanging out to dry. Tag team it, and swap places before one of you loses their head and invokes extreme punishments. You need for him or you to be able to just walk away and the other take over. With your partner struggling with serious mental health condition, expect he will have shorter rope than you. I know that seems unfair, but if he were not there you’d be doing 100% instead of say 75% or 80% you do carrying the heavier load. Until he is recovered, he won’t be able to do 50/50 on child care.

Original poster
stardustsprinkles · 04/06/2021 22:30

@Wolfiefan

He went completely OTT. You say he’s struggling. Is he actually diagnosed and undergoing treatment? TBH he undermined himself by throwing a strop and putting the stuff back then blaming you. Confused
Yes he is diagnosed with anxiety and PTSD. Is trying to find medication that works for him and it's taking a while. Had some counselling but not much as he can't afford it on his own (and won't take it out of the joint account no matter how many times I try and convince him to).
OP posts:
katy1213 · 04/06/2021 22:30

Maybe forget the counselling and just get rid of him. You don't need sad and awful in your life.

AlmostAlwyn · 04/06/2021 22:31

We have a 4 year old who is also challenging at the moment and DH has limited patience. I keep telling him that he needs to adjust his own reactions to situations because shouting and making ridiculous threats is not the answer! Children don't WANT to behave badly, especially at 4 years old. It indicates an unmet need. What was the day like running up to bedtime? Was she particularly tired? Had he been busy doing other things when she wanted to play? What about you?

TakemedowntoPotatoCity · 04/06/2021 22:31

I don't think the dh said no tv for a month, it was for.a.weekend. (still cutting off his nose to spite his face).

PlanDeRaccordement · 04/06/2021 22:32

I also think time out when doing bedtime is counter productive.,the child’s goal is to delay bedtime and you play into her hands doing time outs in middle of the routine. I prefer carrot to stick. So if child is misbehaving, I would say, hey if you get washed up, in pyjamas and teeth brushed by quarter past, we’ll have time for stories AND songs, or for TWO stories, your pick.

Original poster
stardustsprinkles · 04/06/2021 22:33

@suspiria777

My mum was always going on about "backchat" and even now in my thirties I'm not really sure what she meant. What exactly was your DD doing? What did she say to him that was so awful? Unless she was effing and jeffing it does seem extreme...
Every time he asked her to do something she said no basically and then she wasn't a little girl and he wasn't being nice to her and didn't have to have a wash, brush her teeth, go to bed etc etc. She was overtired as well so extra argumentative.
OP posts:
PlanDeRaccordement · 04/06/2021 22:37

@katy1213

Maybe forget the counselling and just get rid of him. You don't need sad and awful in your life.
That’s fucking ableist thing to say. So say you have a really traumatic childbirth and develop PTSD plus post traumatic depression and anxiety, and your partner should just abandon you because who needs “sad” and “awful” in their life?
MrMeeseekslookatme · 04/06/2021 22:39

When you do separate, if he has 50/50, he can discipline her however he sees fit and you will have absolutely no say in the matter.

I can't help but feel if you were in your DHs position, posting the same question from his point of view, there would be more sympathy for his point of view.

Original poster
stardustsprinkles · 04/06/2021 22:40

@PlanDeRaccordement

Neither of you is BU. His punishment is too extreme, YANBU

But he’s had a rough bedtime on top of struggling with a serious health condition, so it is understandable that he’s cracked a bit, so he’s not knowingly BU as in he’s probably at the end of his tether.

I agree with pp who said you two need a plan in advance for backchat l first, although your DC is only 4, the fact her parents relationship is “all but over” has to be affecting her deeply. She will act out to get attention and reassurance, even negative attention is attention to a child that is overwhelmed and feels sidelined. So you need to give her some slack and compassion. Second, if one of you is struggling with her, don’t leave the other hanging out to dry. Tag team it, and swap places before one of you loses their head and invokes extreme punishments. You need for him or you to be able to just walk away and the other take over. With your partner struggling with serious mental health condition, expect he will have shorter rope than you. I know that seems unfair, but if he were not there you’d be doing 100% instead of say 75% or 80% you do carrying the heavier load. Until he is recovered, he won’t be able to do 50/50 on child care.

Thank you that is really helpful (and made me cry because you are right that she does know things are not right). I do try to tag team but he is also very proud/stubborn and sees my attempts at support as somehow me saying he can't do it.....even though I never step in and take over I always ask if I can help or he wants to take a break.
OP posts:
Talkwhilstyouwalk · 04/06/2021 23:00

It's a difficult age, my just turned 5 year old tests us every day. We both have our moments where we put our feet down and decide that she must be disciplined appropriately, only to later realise that the punishment is a bit extreme for the crime (e.g. cancelling play dates).

I've never emptied her bedroom of toys and books but I will admit to tipping out her entire, almost full button reward jar over something relatively minor. A lot of the time our actions are a result of our own mood. Not how it should be but we are only human!

I do think that he was a little over the top here. But equally, I totally understand the sometimes overwhelming desire for discipline to be enforced. Whilst I do think his actions were inappropriate for a 5 year old, I don't think that he's been that awful because I totally understand that feeling of 'enough is enough' that 4 year olds are very good at evoking. Most of us want to raise decent human beings, and sometimes the fear that we are not doing our best means that we overreact to the smaller things!

Tubs11 · 04/06/2021 23:01

There is no reasoning with a 5 year old before bedtime imo, he could talk to her in the morning and maybe deny TV for the day. I would never dream of using the removal of books as a form of punishment, ever

PlanDeRaccordement · 04/06/2021 23:02

Oh, sorry to make you cry! Have a talk with him in private and impress on him his first concern should be addressing the PTSD/Depression etc and that you are there to support him.

On the proud aspect, he probably fears being useless, a waste of space and a burden on you. That’s why he’s trying so hard to carry on to do probably more than he can cope with right now. At work. In family life.

It’s a hard thing. I had full mental breakdown myself and for a long time, I was in a downward spiral but I could not admit even to myself that I had to let go and not do my share in order to recover. With 4 DCs between 15 and 8....my DH had to carry all 5 of us for a good year before I was in my right mind again. It takes all your attention and energy to recover. He really needs to get some trauma therapy. Push that home as much as you can, that he can’t depend on medication alone to be a cure all. I hope he listens to you on this...you are doing all the right things, he just needs to reach out and accept help from you and help from a therapist.

Macncheeseballs · 04/06/2021 23:04

Aren't all children 'uncooperative and argumentative' at bedtime at some point? What a dick head

UnfriendlyFriendly · 04/06/2021 23:07

I don't think you can have your cake and eat it too tbh. If he's doing bedtime and you know DD is being difficult and being rude and causing issues, yet you do nothing to help or support then you don't really have the right to complain about how DH dealt with the situation. You have completely undermined him and we can't know whether the punishment is appropriate without knowing what actually happened - which you've been very vague about. Do you and DH have agreed upon disciplinary measures or not? If not, then he has as much right as you do to dish out whatever discipline he feels is necessary (of course not abusive). How would you feel if the roles were reversed?