To think that families who choose to home educate should receive government funding?

[PinkyU]

It costs the uk government(s) circa 75K to educate a child from 4/5-18.

AIBU to suggest that families who HE (home educate) should receive a percentage (50%-75%) of this to aid in their ability to provide learning opportunities for their child, given that it would still save the government money?

Do you think more families would HE if it seemed more financially viable?

I’m torn. I can see that part of the plethora of reasons school education exists in the format it does is to allow for (potentially) two adults to be working full time and paying tax, so the money saving aspect may fall down there.

From another perspective, accepting government involvement financially may come at the cost of government involvement concerning how and what the child should learn which is the antithesis of what HE seeks to do.

I do think that part funding HE would allow much more access to learning opportunities which would hugely benefit the child.

What do others think?

(Rambling over)

Children with SEND who receive funded out of school education (because there is no suitable school) receive funding for specific things that have been agreed by the LA or the LA have been directed to provide by a SEND tribunal. Their parents don't get a pot of money to spend as they wish. There will also be yearly review by the LA to check on whether the provision continues to be suitable.

For example you might slime in order to practice measuring and reading instructions. Should you have to justify that? Or maybe you use Minecraft to explore the ISS? Do you have to prove that?

Isn't that the sort of thing that most parents (well, the not-shit ones anyway) do with their kids anyway after school / weekends / holidays?

It's not like parents who send their children to school just plonk their kids in front of the TV at all other times and spend no money / effort on other activities.

If there was voucher-type funding for HE families it would need to be limited to the things you'd normally expect schools to provide - stationery, textbooks, exam fees, science kit and so on. I don't know many schools which spend time on slime and minecraft - while the kids may learn something while doing it, that's firmly in the category of 'fun' for me.

@PinkyU

I feel that I’m seeing a lot of “why should they get when I don’t”.

Isn't that what you are basically asking for though? HE kids are not getting the state education and you feel they are not getting the cash equivalent?

No, definitely not.

We don't fund public services on a pay what you use, refund if you don't type basis. The sums would not add up.

To incentivise opting out of the mass provided service would make this situation even worse.

If there is spare money for education knocking around, it's worthwhile having a discussion on best use of that - giving it to home educators is not going to top the list.

I have no objection to funding home ed GCSE and A level entries however.

@PinkyU

Perhaps if the funding was means tested, in the way the uniform grant or FSM is?

But if you’re HEing your children, your income will be lower than if you were working, so you’d most likely qualify for means tested support.

No. Homeschooling should not be subsidised.

@habibihabibi

No - but there should be a free national curriculum portal for home education.

There is, it’s called a school.

No way! We all pay for stuff we don’t use - users of private schools and private healthcare often pay the most towards the schools and hospitals they never use via tax! We don’t get reimbursed, and quite rightly too.
Secondly you’d get parents who won’t use the money effectively or worse, not even use it for HE.

I think if the home educator had relevant training or a degree and decent GCSEs (including maths, science and English) and A levels then yes, there should be some support for that choice, especially as those are the types of people that are going to be intelligent and experienced enough to make sure their child gets enough social contact and a wide range of education, otherwise no, people will take the piss. I really struggled at school being ahead of the class and most of my teachers not being able to teach me anything (just used to sit there doing work I'd learned years before or be told to help others) and I'd love to be able to give me daughter a better experience (if she wanted it) and I am qualified enough and trained in delivering kids activities to do so, and would be able to offer to teach other kids alongside her, however, as a single mum, I can't afford to do so.

I thinkthe problem would be that some parents might decide that they'll keep their children at home and take the money - but not actually educate their children satisfactorily.

What would be very welcome, I'm sure, would be for home educators to be able to access free exam entry.

No thank you - it would come with strings & paperwork etc.

I don't think we should have to pay for exams though - that really pisses me off.

OP, how much do you think would be a feasible amount to pay parents to HE? Currently, schools get approx £4500 per pupil. For a class of 30 children that = £135000. Subtract the cost of the class teacher and perhaps a full time TA = 60000. Then subtract the cost of maintaining the classroom, purchase of resources, proportional costs of the Headteacher / DHT / Senco = £75000 and you're left with approx £25000. All the costs I’ve listed need to be paid regardless of whether little Johnny is being HTed or not. Share the remaining balance between a potential 30 pupils = £833.33 per pupil.
I tutor primary pupils and charge £25 an hour - very low compared with some tutors. So that £833 would buy you less than an hour a week of my time over the school year.

@TheKeatingFive

Of course HE could hide abuse at home but most HE children belong to clubs and go to classes and tutors and have as much contact with independent adults as schoolchildren.

You’re being naive if you don’t see that offering financial incentive would alter the profile of HE families significantly.

I'm not being naive because I said my db wouldn't want financial incentives. But feel free to miss that bit of my post.

There is, it’s called a school.

Which not every child can access fully.

I think that families who opt to home educate should have reduced taxes, the same as people who choose to use private healthcare. Should you choose to take up the state provided services in future then that element of taxation could be added back on.

So many children would lose out on an education, when their selfish deadbeat parents claimed the money despite having no interest or ability to home educate 😳

Way too open to exploitation by parents with vulnerable kids who really need to be in school.

While I see where you are coming from, I think that’s a terrible idea as it could temp families that are not so well off to take kids out of school and not necessarily provide the education needed.

@PinkyU

It costs the uk government(s) circa 75K to educate a child from 4/5-18.

AIBU to suggest that families who HE (home educate) should receive a percentage (50%-75%) of this to aid in their ability to provide learning opportunities for their child, given that it would still save the government money?

Do you think more families would HE if it seemed more financially viable?

I’m torn. I can see that part of the plethora of reasons school education exists in the format it does is to allow for (potentially) two adults to be working full time and paying tax, so the money saving aspect may fall down there.

From another perspective, accepting government involvement financially may come at the cost of government involvement concerning how and what the child should learn which is the antithesis of what HE seeks to do.

I do think that part funding HE would allow much more access to learning opportunities which would hugely benefit the child.

What do others think?

(Rambling over)

Because every parent of a school refuser would be claiming their 75K and staying in bed.

And what about privately educated children? perhaps they can take their 75K to offset school fees?

"I think that families who opt to home educate should have reduced taxes"

Should that apply to those who don't have children and what about those who have less than the average number of children? Should those who have 3 and more children in school have to pay more in taxes? Or make everyone pay for exactly what they use and be done with anything free?

Oh - and it's not "government money" - it's taxpayers' money.

@coconutmonkey

I think that families who opt to home educate should have reduced taxes, the same as people who choose to use private healthcare. Should you choose to take up the state provided services in future then that element of taxation could be added back on.

It would not only be prohibitively expensive to administer and regulate such a scheme, but it would also encourage a very childish attitude to taxation and public services. They exist for the common good. You might use private healthcare your entire life but you still benefit from a population who are vaccinated against a range of diseases. An employer might never have set foot in a state education establishment but they might make significant profits from the work of state-educated employees. It’s impossible to draw the line so it’s better not to have one at all.

@Xenia

I've paid about £1m in before tax income from 1987 to 2022 for 5 children at private nursery school, private primary, secondary school and university and post grad. I would rather like to get a cheque for £1m next week as my refund particularly as I have paid hundreds of thousands in tax.

I have also only seen a doctor for 7 minutes in the last 15 years despite paying vast sums to the NHS (20% of our income tax goes to the NHS), the NHS never being there for this family when we need it.

I am not holding my breath for either sadly.... I would much prefer a much smaller state and much lower taxes.

Have you and your family declined the Covid vaccine then?

*Xenia

I've paid about £1m in before tax income from 1987 to 2022 for 5 children at private nursery school, private primary, secondary school and university and post grad. I would rather like to get a cheque for £1m next week as my refund particularly as I have paid hundreds of thousands in tax.

I have also only seen a doctor for 7 minutes in the last 15 years despite paying vast sums to the NHS (20% of our income tax goes to the NHS), the NHS never being there for this family when we need it.

I am not holding my breath for either sadly.... I would much prefer a much smaller state and much lower taxes.

Have you and your family declined the Covid vaccine then?*

This! Xenia meanwhile would like to return to a world of even greater inequality than today, where those fortunate enough to be born with high academic ability like herself and her family, get to earn a fuckton and not give a shit about anyone else. All the while failing to appreciate that all the wealth of our economy is based on everyone contributing - all the transport workers getting everyone to their jobs on time, the nurses keeping us all healthy. She wouldn't make nearly as much doing her legal work in a much poorer country but fails to appreciate how much of what she earns is driven by the system value of a knowledge economy and highly skilled workforce. She just happens to get a bigger slice of pie out than most of us because she's clever so her skills are rarer and more in demand but plenty of people work just as hard on things we need more than we need people like her.

It's a hard no from me.

But, I'd be OK with the Government sharing certain educational resources/tools. That makes home schooling easier, without it being a financial incentive.

IMHO, state school has three purposes: 1) provide a basic education to all kids, 2) provide childcare so parents can at least work part-time and 3) provide an opportunity for children with abusive parents to get picked up by the system and rescued.

The sort of parents likely to pocket the cash and not teach their kids anything, are the sort covered by point 3) - so no, I don't want to encourage them to take that safe space away. Most parents are just trying to do the best they can, but some are awful humans, and we need to make sure we give children every opportunity to raise the alarm.

Parents who genuinely want to provide a home education for their kids for good reasons are likely not to need a cash incentive to do it, but will be grateful for additional educational resources they can use in their home education plan.