To think that families who choose to home educate should receive government funding?

[PinkyU]

It costs the uk government(s) circa 75K to educate a child from 4/5-18.

AIBU to suggest that families who HE (home educate) should receive a percentage (50%-75%) of this to aid in their ability to provide learning opportunities for their child, given that it would still save the government money?

Do you think more families would HE if it seemed more financially viable?

I’m torn. I can see that part of the plethora of reasons school education exists in the format it does is to allow for (potentially) two adults to be working full time and paying tax, so the money saving aspect may fall down there.

From another perspective, accepting government involvement financially may come at the cost of government involvement concerning how and what the child should learn which is the antithesis of what HE seeks to do.

I do think that part funding HE would allow much more access to learning opportunities which would hugely benefit the child.

What do others think?

(Rambling over)

@timeisnotaline

Home ed parents will pay as much as other taxpayers and then more so. Probably not as a family they won’t. There are many many families with both parents working and paying tax and home educators are less likely to be in that group. And why do you think they pay more so?

All this is irrelevant though. Paying parents to home Ed would put children at risk, so it’s not acceptable.

Why would providing funding for home educated children put children at risk...?

It would reduce the risk of them receiving a poor school education and increase their parents options within home education such as more access to private tutors, educational trips, educational materials and out of school groups.

Or is this just the school of thought that thinks the more time children spend with their family the more at risk they are? Despite recent reports that a 3rd of teachers have witnessed sexual assault in school and 10% see it on a weekly basis. Not even touching bullying stats nor school children suicide rates.

"I know several children who are functioning perfectly well at school and doing well, but their parents insist they're not because they melt down at home, and want more school support in place than they already have. I do believe that they melt down at home, but that doesn't alter the fact that they are succeeding at school with the provisions that have been made, I have seen it with my own eyes. A few of them are now considering 'home schooling' because they claim the school' is failing their children when it isn't."

I'm one of these parents. School insisted DC was "fine" there but he screamed that he hated it and didn't have enough language to tell us why. We had months of hell and he had nightmares about it, but school insisted he was flourishing. Everything improved when we deregistered.

Why would providing funding for home educated children put children at risk...?

Because some parents of more vulnerable children would take the money and run. Thus depriving their kids of an education and also contact with outside authorities.

The only way this would work would be with stringent inspection measures in place. But I don’t think there’s any appetite for that, either from government or those currently home schooling.

@TheKeatingFive

Why would providing funding for home educated children put children at risk...?

Because some parents of more vulnerable children would take the money and run. Thus depriving their kids of an education and also contact with outside authorities.

The only way this would work would be with stringent inspection measures in place. But I don’t think there’s any appetite for that, either from government or those currently home schooling.

If the government provided funding via vouchers for larger tutor companies, free places at exam centres for home educated kids, discounted entry to various establishments (like aquariums, zoo’s, national trust etc) would that alleviate your concern?

Vouchers would be better, yes.

But for lots of reasons, the government don’t want to incentivise people opting out of mainstream. So why would they?

Really? Private tutors?
There must have been an article every week of the past year on the disappearing children as they lost contact with schools because schools were shut, of the silent epidemic of abuse that now takes place behind closed doors all day long with children not being expected at school.
Yes some parents provide a fabulous home school environment. Many more, while great parents, are not fabulous teachers. And the real concern is terrible actively neglectful and abusive parents who would see this as an income stream.

I know a single parent who home educates their child
Does not work
So they already receive everything from the Government in benefits

I do think children who can't function in one of the provided schools should get funding to seek education elsewhere and if that's home school then fine. I don't think in general the choice to homeschool needs to be funded by the government.

If there was a financial incentive to homeschool, parents would do it just for the money, to the detriment of their children.

@TheKeatingFive

Vouchers would be better, yes.

But for lots of reasons, the government don’t want to incentivise people opting out of mainstream. So why would they?

Because presumably they care about outcomes for home educated children.

@IceLace100

If there was a financial incentive to homeschool, parents would do it just for the money, to the detriment of their children.

I think most neglectful parents would much rather wave goodbye to their kids for 5 days a week for the free childcare school provides.

Most none neglectful parents as well judging by social media over the pandemic whilst schools were closed.

Because presumably they care about outcomes for home educated children.

Outcomes for home educated children are a lot harder to manage than outcomes for school educated children.

So while some gains would be made with more funding for HS, the bigger issue is that it incentivises more parents to opt out of the easier to manage/measure/control systems.

The cons outweigh the pros basically

I think most neglectful parents would much rather wave goodbye to their kids for 5 days a week for the free childcare school provides.

This is pretty naive. The ones you have to worry about won’t be investing any energy in their care to begin with. Giving them money to pull the kids out of school is asking for major trouble.

@shouldistop

No. The government provide education in the form of schools from general taxation. If people choose not to use them then that's up to them. Much like people who only use private healthcare shouldn't be given government grants.

This. Also why would the government encourage with financial benefit to choose an educational setting where the people doing it aren't trained? As a teacher myself it baffles me how unskilled parents think they can give as good a quality education to their children that's taken me over two decades to acquire the skills needed.

@Littlepaws18 it baffles me that so many teachers have so little faith in the very system they work within.
I think in the main, parents really stepped up to the plate and embraced home schooling during lockdown.
I've often wondered how teachers would fare attempting to transform themselves into another profession with little notice or training whilst doing their day job simultaneously.
I've huge respect for teachers honestly I do, but don't dismiss all parents as incapable, you'd be an Ed how sheer determination fuels your abilities when teachers, schools and the system have consistently failed your child.

[quote doubleshotespresso]@Littlepaws18 it baffles me that so many teachers have so little faith in the very system they work within.
I think in the main, parents really stepped up to the plate and embraced home schooling during lockdown.
I've often wondered how teachers would fare attempting to transform themselves into another profession with little notice or training whilst doing their day job simultaneously.
I've huge respect for teachers honestly I do, but don't dismiss all parents as incapable, you'd be an Ed how sheer determination fuels your abilities when teachers, schools and the system have consistently failed your child. [/quote]
As a teacher and a parent, and with the genuine respect for home educators, what parents were asked to do during the lockdowns was not home educating in the usual sense. Yes, provision was patchy and I'm told that some schools provided nothing (although I don't know of any personally) but the vast majority of schools provided planning and resources. Supervising, supporting, and cajoling a child to complete the work set by their teachers doesn't bear much resemblance to full-time home education.

May I also point out that we took our entire curriculum online with five days' notice and minimal training whilst also caring for our own children.

As a teacher myself it baffles me how unskilled parents think they can give as good a quality education to their children that's taken me over two decades to acquire the skills needed.

It’s fairly obvious that teaching and home educating require different skills, it baffles me that a skilled teacher isn’t able to recognise that. Often when teachers do opt to home educate their own dc they talk about having to get out of the mindset of being a teacher with a whole class to teach, lesson times to stick too and targets to meet.
As for being able to provide a good quality of education, when calling for a register the ex children’s commission Anne Longfield (who is no fan of home education) noted that parents who made a philosophical choice to home educate provide a high quality of education(I can’t remember the exact quote) and in my experience that is true. I do worry about the other group who don’t have any choice but to home educate, some will flourish, others will struggle but in reality that isn’t the fault of the parent when it isn’t a choice they have made.

@ThanksItHasPockets this wasn't a teacher bashing comment. It was a genuine statement that home educating is not an easy route, but is is with a bit of research and planning ultimately doable.
As a parent to a child with full EHCP, none of the online learning provided was accessible. Each and every subject tasks, key texts and specialist provisions (which the school still have failed to deliver despite them being specified in the legal doc) all had to be tailored to my child before I could consider cajoling/encouraging etc.
But you know what ? We did it -hugely time consuming hugely demanding but very rewarding and said child has now exceeded the PLP targets set early 2020.
Of course it's not for everyone but when your child is not receiving what the law states they're entitled to as a parent you take matters into your own hands.

Home ed parents will pay as much as other taxpayers and then more so.

And parents with school-educated children pay as much as other tax payers, and then more so too. I do both - and one child who is part-time of both - and all ways of educating have their additional expenses alongside benefits, risks, and responsibility. I've spent more, on a tighter deadline, for my kids to use schools than to educate them at home.

Local authorities may need some incentive to ensure more children who should be in school are, which might include them having to give financial support for families in that situation, but I can't see what benefit incentivizing home education is at this time.

As a teacher myself it baffles me how unskilled parents think they can give as good a quality education to their children that's taken me over two decades to acquire the skills needed.

As many other posters said, home education in the UK is widely done by those who've tried the school system and been failed. For many, the choice isn't a quality school vs home education, but a failing school or a school that has failed to provide for SEN needs or prevent violence or a lack of a suitable school place and home education.

How quality education is defined varies widely both on a population level and an individual level, but even for those of us who choose to home educate it's within our options available. For primary, I try to do something different than can be accomplished in primary schools with all they are required to do to measure outcomes, with far too little resources, in an area with failing schools.

I'm not trying to compete with teachers, I'm dealing with the systems around me the ways I can. Sometimes that's home educating, sometimes that's working in a school academy trust (even as an unskilled parent).

If I had different options, maybe I'd have chosen differently - much like my children where the ones who had the option of trying the new non-catchment secondary chose to take the potential risk with the possible benefits, while my eldest whose only options were secondaries more known for people getting glassed than outcomes chose to continue learning at home until he could attend college.

Because presumably they care about outcomes for home educated children.

I think the government cares about as much as the outcomes of state school educated children - which is questionably, but definitely not enough.

That's actually a big part of why I don't want them to focus on incentivizing home education. Exams, better access to service and inclusion, sure, but the education systems have enough cracks to focus on that I'd rather schools that off-rolled or refused to put in appropriate measures to protect and better outcomes for all children weren't given something else they could push at parents to make their children not the school's problem rather than the school actually fulfilling their responsibilities. Sure, some dodgy parents might take advantage, but I can see some dodgy schools doing it just as much.

As a teacher myself it baffles me how unskilled parents think they can give as good a quality education to their children that's taken me over two decades to acquire the skills needed.

1. You need to think about how much of the skills you've developed are actually about managing large groups of children, assessing quickly and having tools at your disposal to use immediately because you don't have time to come back to a topic later. Things that aren't an issue in home ed.

2. You need to think about how much of your time is taken up with pointless tasks that take time to learn but ultimately are about the system not the child.

3. You need to think about how much time and energy is used to contrive experiences for children so they can learn about the world or science or nature. When we can just get up and go.... Right now... To the beach, the woods, the museum, a rock climbing class... Whatever

Contriving these things in a meaningful way in a class of 30 does take skill and experience. It's just not needed in the same way in Home Ed.

4. I think many people would be surprised how many teachers HE their own children.

Can't get moved for them in some meet ups 😁

Regards,

Ex-teacher and home educator

@soapboxqueen

As a teacher myself it baffles me how unskilled parents think they can give as good a quality education to their children that's taken me over two decades to acquire the skills needed.

1. You need to think about how much of the skills you've developed are actually about managing large groups of children, assessing quickly and having tools at your disposal to use immediately because you don't have time to come back to a topic later. Things that aren't an issue in home ed.

2. You need to think about how much of your time is taken up with pointless tasks that take time to learn but ultimately are about the system not the child.

3. You need to think about how much time and energy is used to contrive experiences for children so they can learn about the world or science or nature. When we can just get up and go.... Right now... To the beach, the woods, the museum, a rock climbing class... Whatever

Contriving these things in a meaningful way in a class of 30 does take skill and experience. It's just not needed in the same way in Home Ed.

4. I think many people would be surprised how many teachers HE their own children.

Can't get moved for them in some meet ups 😁

Regards,

Ex-teacher and home educator

Here here.

People forget that school is a very very different environment with less flexibility to problem solve and find what works for a a child

@TheKeatingFive

I think most neglectful parents would much rather wave goodbye to their kids for 5 days a week for the free childcare school provides.

This is pretty naive. The ones you have to worry about won’t be investing any energy in their care to begin with. Giving them money to pull the kids out of school is asking for major trouble.

I completely agree it's naive.

If there was a financial incentive for kids to stay home, parents who had no money (or who just wanted the money) would take the money and let their kids stay home. This would be despite the fact that they didn't have the skills, time or will to teach their kids. This would be terrible for the children in question who would miss out on education, socialising and the safeguards in place at schools.

He who pays the Piper calls the tune

@HighNoon

He who pays the Piper calls the tune

That'd be us taxpayers then wouldn't it? Great 😊

I home educate. Those of us who have genuinely chosen to electively home educate shouldn't be given a subsidy; why should we get money just because we choose not to make use of a public service?

As for those who have been forced into home education due to having their children badly let down by the school system, I imagine they would rather have a well-functioning school system instead of being paid to home ed.

I do think that it should be free for absolutely anyone of any age to sit GCSEs and A levels. I can see no reason why there should be a cost attached to sitting so-called public exams.

Every time the government proposes to subject home ed families to some heavy-handed monitoring regime, they always claim they want to "support" us. But no government has ever offered us the one thing which home educators request most often: free exams, or failing that at least guaranteed access to somewhere our kids can sit exams if we pay. Getting access to exam centres can be very difficult indeed.