To wonder exactly what Ultra Processed Foods are? As in a list?

[tentosix]

So watched the TV program 'what are we feeding our kids' and horrified like most parents, but why didn't it list them? Or give a better idea than having loads of ingredients. Is sugar bad for you in moderation (I have a teaspoon on my morning porridge). Bread? White/brown/whole meal/seeded?

McDonald's are just beef aren't they?

Nuggets I get, and presumably hash browns?

I need a list just to get me started

This is an interesting thread thank you! I figured if I couldn’t easily buy the ingredients or pronounce them then they were processed and bad for you but I hadn’t realised oil or yogurt were on there too! Might as well start nibbling on the grass in the garden instead of mowing it! Looks like everything has additives 🤣

McDonald’s not cooking their fries in beef dripping is not a victory

They now cook them in UP seed oils which most experts agree are a disaster to health. Beef dripping is not processed and we’ve been eating it for millennia.

As a rule of thumb, when you go to a supermarket, you’ll only visit the fruit and veg aisle, meat aisle and dairy aisle.

Pretty much every other aisle is UPF except some of the tinned foods

You get starch, sometimes Es

I’ve never yet come across MDMA in a yogurt

The Guardian link above is an excellent read and the Nova system is useful guide. I generally work on the rule that if it contains ingredients I can’t buy it in the average supermarket, it’s an ultra processed food.

The whole point is that you are never going to avoid UPF completely unless you have a very strict diet. If you try and eat un/ minimally processed food (ie from the outer isles of the supermarket - the stuff you can recognise comes from a farm/ sea etc) for most of you diet, you are going to be much better off, then don't worry about the small amount of UPF.

I’ve never yet come across MDMA in a yogurt grin

Would be called TheRave and made you happy as well as your belly😂😂😂

@fusionchefgeoff I take it you weren't around in the 1960s - Angel Delight, Instant Whip, For Mash get Smash, Dairylea cheese and worse Velveeta, Dream Topping, 'chopped shaped chicken' in Vesta curries - definitely ultra-processed, they looked like they'd been pre-chewed and spat out.

I think it’s too simplistic to say UPF causes obesity. Surely everyone knows it’s better for your health to cook from scratch already.

I’ve been brought up on Indian food. Fresh, simple ingredients like lentils, rice, vegetable stir fries and chappaties made only with flour and water. Well Indians still have a massive problem with diabetes & heart disease and many are overweight.

Supposedly this is because the Indian diet can be high in fat & carbs. People also don’t exercise very much. So my conclusion for good health is food made from scratch + low in carbs + low in fat + exercise.

We all know this really. But life is just incredibly busy so it’s unrealistic for most people.

I thought baked beans were okay, the tin does have a few ingredients but 85% is beans and tomatoes, water, sugar, salt...doesn’t sound that bad??

@TheDizzyLady

I think it’s too simplistic to say UPF causes obesity. Surely everyone knows it’s better for your health to cook from scratch already.

I’ve been brought up on Indian food. Fresh, simple ingredients like lentils, rice, vegetable stir fries and chappaties made only with flour and water. Well Indians still have a massive problem with diabetes & heart disease and many are overweight.

Supposedly this is because the Indian diet can be high in fat & carbs. People also don’t exercise very much. So my conclusion for good health is food made from scratch + low in carbs + low in fat + exercise.

We all know this really. But life is just incredibly busy so it’s unrealistic for most people.

I heard someone talking about this on a podcast - sorry I can't remember which, but they were basically saying that if you look in rural India where the diet is mostly vegetarian and minimally processed, the obesity levels are very low. It is only when they move into urban areas and the diets become more westernised, then obesity levels really rise

I don’t know if the second half of the documentary was better than the first - I didn’t make it past 30 mins, it was a bit boring. They were trying to shock but I don’t get what was surprising or shocking. Obviously if you eat mainly high calorie UPF food as the main part of your diet it won’t be good for you, physically or mentally I think that’s hardly rocket science (especially if it’s mainly fried chicken, bacon sarnies and Big Macs - nothing prevented him from going for a microwave stir fry, veg topped pizza and tins of soup 🤷‍♀️) If you are a healthy weight and have few to no major health issues and eat some UPF as part of an otherwise balanced and healthy diet I don’t see the need to run out and buy a bread maker or throw out your margarine. As a pp said it’s looking to blame one thing for obesity when it’s actually a very complex issue and the reasons will vary from person to person. I’m wary of any agenda that starts with putting a freezer kebab microwave meal and Shreddies into one category.

This isn’t just about weight though. UPF’s lead to inflammation which causes various significant health issues. You can be “thin as a rake” but incredibly unhealthy and unwell.

This isn’t just about weight though. UPF’s lead to inflammation which causes various significant health issues. You can be “thin as a rake” but incredibly unhealthy and unwell.

But it seems nuts to me to just declare all UPFs do this - why aren’t all the bottlefed infants incredibly unhealthy and inflamed?

@Blueskythinking123

I over the years we have become reliant on processed foods.

When I think back to my childhood ( I'm 46), my mum predominately cooked from scratch. Our cakes were homemade and we had very few biscuits and sweets.

I'm not sure when the shift to convenience processed food happened...

Around the time it became the norm to be out of the home working for 10 hours a day?

We’re time poor and tired these days. We need convenience.

why aren’t all the bottlefed infants incredibly unhealthy and inflamed?

There would be outrage if they suggested that - and it would also be untrue and I think makes their ‘throw all processed food into one category’ null and void. Different foods are ultra processed for different and various reasons - some for an addictive taste, yes. Some simply for convenience, a lot for shelf life which is important to prevent food waste and some for genuine necessity like formula.

Infant formula is highly processed and it has got to be to create something that babies will thrive on when human breast milk is unavailable. It is a triumph of processing.

@tentosix

So posh peanut butter that contains Roasted peanuts, palm oil, brown sugar and salt is ok? I know palm oil is shit but it's not manufactured.

So 4 ingredients that look real. I'll go for that.

DS2 has brioche and Biscoff spread for breakfast but is skinny as a rake. ☹️

There are delucious posh peanut butters that are just peanuts, much better and more ethical to go for them. Aldi do one under The Food Market label, also Meridian. They are also delicious

Infant formula is highly processed and it has got to be to create something that babies will thrive on when human breast milk is unavailable. It is a triumph of processing.

Agreed, and it exposes this UPF hysteria as bullshit. I’m not even sure why it annoys me as I eat a very unprocessed diet because I love food and cooking. It just feels very unscientific to me, like the weird declarations that if you get thirsty you’re already dehydrated or the random numbers of vegetables we’re meant to eat.

www.bbc.co.uk/food/articles/what_is_ultra-processed_food

Clear guidelines here

The NOVA system is well reported and has four categories
educhange.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/NOVA-Classification-Reference-Sheet.pdf
Group 1 unprocessed or minimally processed

• food that has been harvested/peeled/dried/frozen but basically in natural form

Group 2 Processed culinary ingredients - Oils, fats, salt,sugar, flour etc that you wouldn't eat on their own.

Group 3 Processed foods that are cured/salted etc but still a version of the original food - Bacon, cheese, traditional bread, beer, wine etc (I would call these old-fashioned processed foods as they have been around for centuries, or you could at a push make them at home/on a farm)

Group 4 Ultra processed food - Industrial/factory made food products
All factory made foods, baked goods, drinks, sweet desserts, ready meals, packed mixes etc, factory bread.

It's debatable whether they make you fat directly but they are often lacking nutrition and formulated to make you overeat them, in the way of Pringles.

It's definitely about moderation - a lovely home made cake would be better than a cheap factory made cake but would still be fattening.
But a natural cooked piece of chicken or fish is way better than nuggets or fish fingers.

It's a killer really because to avoid them completely you have to ignore 80% of the supermarket. So realistically it's a case of trying to swing the balance.

Natural yoghurt isn't UPF.

I'm sure some yoghurts like say Longley Farm are better than "Crunch Corner". But even posh yoghurts have starches to thicken them and extra flavourings.

[quote katy1213]@fusionchefgeoff I take it you weren't around in the 1960s - Angel Delight, Instant Whip, For Mash get Smash, Dairylea cheese and worse Velveeta, Dream Topping, 'chopped shaped chicken' in Vesta curries - definitely ultra-processed, they looked like they'd been pre-chewed and spat out.[/quote]
And luncheon meat, sandwich spread, deep fried fish balls (or was that just us?), Viennetta ice cream, Toast Toppers, cup-a-soup and pot noodles...

Well, they did quote a study where one cohort ate UPF and others a diet minimally processed - both diets 'matched' in terms of fat, sugar, carbs etc both groups could eat whenever they felt hungry.

Run by someone sceptical about UPFs being any different than a less processed diet that was nutritionally the same. But his findings were that those with the UPFs ate far more than those with less processed food.

So yes, the weight gains may be due to eating more, but a less processed diet makes you feel fuller for longer, so easier not to over eat.

And at the start they said in the 1980s a typical diet would have about 20% UPF, now it is nearer 80%. Not that UPFs didn't exist in the 1960s/1970s/1980s.

I take it you weren't around in the 1960s - Angel Delight, Instant Whip, For Mash get Smash, Dairylea cheese and worse Velveeta, Dream Topping, 'chopped shaped chicken' in Vesta curries - definitely ultra-processed, they looked like they'd been pre-chewed and spat out.

I wasn’t around in the 60s but from watching call the midwife imagine a lot of tinned corned beef was used. ‘Corned beef pie’ was served up at least once.

Yup, we used to slice it, dip it in flour and fry it.

The corned beef, I mean, though to be honest that was pretty much my parents’ treatment of anything other than salad.

There is an app to use. Someone posted it in a thread yesterday. It's called open food facts. It has a barcode thing to scan.