Manager refusing time off work for appointment

[user78754567]

I have an hospital appointment next Friday and asked my manager if I can take a day holiday or unpaid to attended the appointment and he refused. He told me he can’t give me a whole day off for the appointment only half a day. The hospital is a 6 hour round trip so no chance of me been able to work. Aibu to take a sick day?

If a business cannot plan for staff cover in the week of a bank holiday such that it is difficult if someone has a medical appointment at short notice, that is bad planning by managers.

Not sure this is fair. Given we’re coming out of a pandemic, where staffing levels in a lot of companies have been cut because the business needs to survive, and managers are also trying to balance staff wishes for holidays and this is a popular time this year more so than ever due to previous restrictions limiting travel, it’s pretty likely a lot of companies might be short-staffed next week.

You have had some good advice here.

I would email your boss, copying in hr, to say that you have tried to move the appointment but that it wasn’t possible so unfortunately you will be absent for the full day.

Attach a copy of the appointment letter.

Finish with something nice like «I understand this will be really inconvenient for you but I don’t have another option - the appointment is too important. Please know that I appreciate your flexibility and would be happy to step in to support next time you urgently need someone to cover».

I think that's good advice from @wildseas. I've waited years for hospital appointments before, there's no way I'd be cancelling, and everyone wants the appointments at the start or end of the day so they're not easy to come by.

If you are travelling 6 hours for an appointment i presume it is a specialist clinic you are attending. Completely unreasonable to refuse you leave.

I wouldn't take the time off sick, no. You aren't sick, you are attending a medical appointment.

I agree with PP - take half day and then text saying "Sorry, consultant was running late, only just got out..."

Depending on your type of work, could you offer to go in early for a couple of hours before leaving for the appointment. Or come back to work after the appointment and stay late.

I agree for the length of time it’s going to take, it makes more sense to have a day annual leave. However, if you normally work 8 hours & you will be away 6 hours, it might be that going in for the other 2 hours would make a difference, and you do owe them to your employer.

It's so sad to see so many people in this thread, saying it's to short notice and could you rearrange the appointment!

Fuck that, my health, how ever minor comes before any work commitment, my work would replace me in a week if I dropped dead right now!

So so sad!

@Dddccc

Sorry but its short notice most employers require 4 weeks notice for days off other people have already booked off which you knew about I would first be ringing the hospital and see if they can fit you it at another time ie late afternoon so you could work the morning or a different day, no employers do not own ppl however they do need to have staff to run a business if no one works no money would be earned so no wages

Wow that’s a harsh opinion......I have about 5 or 6 health appointments a month at present.....my manager says just go, don’t worry....no time making up or anything like that

@NoSquirrels

If a business cannot plan for staff cover in the week of a bank holiday such that it is difficult if someone has a medical appointment at short notice, that is bad planning by managers.

Not sure this is fair. Given we’re coming out of a pandemic, where staffing levels in a lot of companies have been cut because the business needs to survive, and managers are also trying to balance staff wishes for holidays and this is a popular time this year more so than ever due to previous restrictions limiting travel, it’s pretty likely a lot of companies might be short-staffed next week.

But it's a fair point, what if someone was off work sick for the week? They couldn't force them in, they would have to make do or enact their contingency plan. I'm guessing the manager thinks OP will say alright I won't go which makes his life easier.

@NoSquirrels

If a business cannot plan for staff cover in the week of a bank holiday such that it is difficult if someone has a medical appointment at short notice, that is bad planning by managers.

Not sure this is fair. Given we’re coming out of a pandemic, where staffing levels in a lot of companies have been cut because the business needs to survive, and managers are also trying to balance staff wishes for holidays and this is a popular time this year more so than ever due to previous restrictions limiting travel, it’s pretty likely a lot of companies might be short-staffed next week.

But there will always be employee emergencies....sick children, family funerals,..... at my place they just say.....go go go....don’t worry.... some people on here have really shit employers

If it's a day holiday what business is it of his what you do or where you go?

I think it really depends what the appointment is for. Did op come back to say?

I would not usually expect to have to ask permission for hospital appointments.

However this one does seem short notice and also a six hour round trip (hence a full day) seems odd, unless you live in the Orkneys or something. I still think your manager is being unreasonable though, you could be hit by a bus that day and they would have to manage and should be able to manage.

@whosappleman

If it's a day holiday what business is it of his what you do or where you go?

Holiday leave isn't automatically granted at most places though is it? People put in a request and know it could be turned down.

Does your manager have a manager, or is there HR option? This has to be escalated, it is unacceptable.

If she's offering a half day it does sound like she's trying to be supportive. Do you think your manager might doubt that it's a six hour round trip?

You absolutely go to your appointment @user78754567

And yes, your manager is being extremely unreasonable. Short staffed or not - you have a medical appointment that you have to attend. I’ve been a manager for the last 10 years in a small but very busy retail environment. Staff sickness/appointments/childcare issues/holidays is something that you just have to deal with.

During peak season for us only one person is allowed annual leave at a time. Everyone is informed of this when they join. At quieter periods I have no issue with a couple of people being off at the same time. This allows me a bit of a safety net for the inevitable time that someone has a last minute appointment, or someone’s child is ill, or they’re ill etc! And if it all hits the fan and we’re left short staffed then that’s my issue to deal with!

As others have suggested, email your boss copying in HR if you can just stating that you are unavailable for work that day as you have a hospital appointment to attend. Say you will happily take the day unpaid if necessary. Attach a copy of your appointment letter if you can. You can blank out the department or whatever if it’s a private matter - they have no need to know what it’s for.

@Memedru

It's so sad to see so many people in this thread, saying it's to short notice and could you rearrange the appointment!

Fuck that, my health, how ever minor comes before any work commitment, my work would replace me in a week if I dropped dead right now!

So so sad!

Well, realism does need to come into play.

If it’s a non-urgent issue, and the hospital can rearrange, and I can’t get time off approved, then it would be mad to just go anyway. Because then my job would be at risk/at the least my relationship with my manager damaged.

But if it’s a really urgent issue, then the weigh-up is different.

OP hasn’t said where they fall on that spectrum.

@Aprilx

I would not usually expect to have to ask permission for hospital appointments.

However this one does seem short notice and also a six hour round trip (hence a full day) seems odd, unless you live in the Orkneys or something. I still think your manager is being unreasonable though, you could be hit by a bus that day and they would have to manage and should be able to manage.

Nope 6 hour round trip is normal where I live, it’s a hospital that specialises in my condition. I live in North Wales and my appointment is down South Wales and it takes just under 3 hours to get there.

@fourminutestosavetheworld

I think it really depends what the appointment is for. Did op come back to say?

Cancer

Just go OP.
My old job got funny when I had to go to my specialist. It was in the centre of London so by the time I got there, had my appointment and got back it was an almost 5/6 hour day.

At the end of the day I could get a new job, couldn't get a new heart that needed seeing to.

When you are telling him you are invoking your LEGAL right to attend a hospital appointment, do it in writing. Always keep a paper trail.

Cancer is considered a disability under uk law. Confirm you will be attending your appointment and if he makes a fuss you will consider it discrimination. See Macmillan.org.uk for details Of your rights. It's is a reasonable adjustment required because of your disability.

.....Macmillan specifically say time of for medical appointments for cancer is a reasonable adjustment

Do you work full time? I have a co worker who only does 2 days a week yet she is always booking medical appointments on her working days... I have to admit I can understand why it would frustrate our boss that she can't ever seem to manage to coordinate any of them to be on her non working days, and she never offers to swap days either (which is what I do when I have one where a lot of the time I am taking off is travel time etc)