Manager refusing time off work for appointment

[user78754567]

I have an hospital appointment next Friday and asked my manager if I can take a day holiday or unpaid to attended the appointment and he refused. He told me he can’t give me a whole day off for the appointment only half a day. The hospital is a 6 hour round trip so no chance of me been able to work. Aibu to take a sick day?

@BarbarianMum

Take the half day then just call him to say it's taking longer than expected/you're stuck in traffic.

No

Employers don’t legally have to give you time off for a hospital appointments, and a weeks notice is quite short notice. How long have you known about it?

Can you rearrange the appointment for a more suitable day?

Please do not call in halfway through the day
Instead do it right
Call your union rep and explain.. no decent boss would pull this on someone.
If your appointments hospital you have good reason to attend.
Don't play games, play straight.
I have never heard of people refused for such appointments in my country.. they would be torn to bits

If the appointment can’t be rescheduled without detriment to your health, then it’s down to whether you’re prepared to lose your job over this. I’m sorry your boss is unreasonable. There must be some contingency plans for situations like these.

I'm not sure the boss is being unreasonable, he would normally have given you the day off but can't because 2 people are already off. I'm assuming if he gives you the day off too he can't get cover and will be understaffed if you have the day off too.

I would call and see if I could rearrange the appointment, also I would find out if the other people who are off are actually away or just having a day off, and see if they can swap a shift with you, I would happily do this for a colleague if I was just home with my child and I could alter childcare to accommodate

Depends how serious the issue is re. The hospital appointment.
Imo

It depends entirely on what your appointment is for and how urgent it is.

If it's the two week pathway for a cancer diagnosis, you should find a way that you can go. If it's for a mammogram, then you rearrange the appointment.

However, don't lie about your whereabouts, if you do insist on going. It will be obvious what's happening and it makes you an unreliable/untrustworthy employee.

what would happen in your work if you took a sick day?
would they cope?

can you rearrange hospital appointment?

It think it depends on what the appointment is for. Annual review with no known change in circumstances or an appointment to discuss cosmetic procedure is imo not urgent and can be rearranged. New referral for medical issue or a change in you circumstances that is causing pain or where delaying could be dangerous for example is urgent.

Have you chosen a distant hospital when a more local one would be available or is that the closest centre for your issue? I can see the employer having an issue if there's a hospital on the doorstep that could see your issue but you have chosen one hours away to incorporate a trip to the seaside or to see your mum etc.

Agree with others.

If it’s an urgent appointment, explain the 6 hour trip and the urgency to your boss and ask what he suggests (maybe you can make some of the hours up be working later?)

If it’s non-urgent you should try to reschedule and give your boss much more notice.

It depends what the appointment is for, how long you'd have to wait for another and if you've even tried to rearrange. Why is it such short notice?

Obviously if it's something urgent that really can't be changed, he'll have to find a way to manage without you, but you should also have tried to be accommodating.

@Creamdo

Do you have a HR department you can copy in when you reply to him and state you need to attend a medical appt

In addition to ccing HR, take a photo of your appointment letter, masking anything you don't want them to see, but sufficient to show it's a genuine hospital appointment inc date and time, and attach the image to the email.

Maybe your manager thinks you're going for a job interview and wants to make life as awkward as possible for you.

The chances of you being sacked are small if you've been there longer than 2 years, but if you've been there less time, there is a risk albeit small they could part company. That said, prioritise your health!

What's your work policy? I can't believe he can say no as it's your health. Phone HR, check your policy and revisit with a letter (blank out personal details) if necessary

@user78754567
Is the appointment urgent?
How much notice for the appointment did you have?

If you now go sick, he'll know he's "been played" and may well request that you gain a sick note to prove you were actually sick and not attending the appointment they couldn't accommodate.

You can't call in sick because they'll know you're lying and where you are.

How stable is your employment situation? If you have years of service and a good record, they can be dicks about it but they can't fire you.

Involve HR and explain the situation. What a shit thing to do when you're already dealing with health issues.

Guessing it is an important app if you're travelling so far for it? I wouldn't move it, who knows when you will be able to get another appointment at the moment! I would scan the letter, covering parts you aren't comfortable with him seeing, which shows the hospital so the travel time will be clear, and that it is genuine.

I'd ring the hospital and see how much longer you'd have to wait if you cancelled this appointment. If it's only a couple of weeks, and providing it's for something non-urgent, cancel it and get the brownie points at work.

Otherwise, I'd be minded to go and tell him that you can't get another appt for X weeks and that it's too important/urgent to wait that long. However, if you haven't been in the job for 2 years, you may want to take into account that you won't have any employment rights if he spits the dummy and fires you. I once worked for a small company that did this to someone who'd only been there a short time and did something similar.

I am frequently shocked by how appallingly inflexible and uncaring some employers are. And I think workers should have a legal right to time off for medical appointments.

We have really poor employment rights in this country.

Assuming that the appointment cannot be rescheduled without detriment to your health, the only reasonable thing to do would be for the manager to cancel the annual leave of one of the other people who can cover the work in your absence. Obviously that is a very undesirable outcome so take every step you can to establish that it is definitely the case that you cannot rearrange the appointment without detriment to your health, and then communicate that to your boss in writing.

The shit will definitely hit the fan then, so make sure that all pertinent points are communicated is in writing (follow up any verbal exchanges with an email summarising what was said and directly asking them to let you know immediately if this isn't a correct account of the conversation) because you may end up needing to produce this as evidence in an employment tribunal sooner or later.

Given how many appointments have been delayed because hospitals have been dealing with Covid 19 patients, I would not advocate a postponement at all.

If a business cannot plan for staff cover in the week of a bank holiday such that it is difficult if someone has a medical appointment at short notice, that is bad planning by managers. The date of the bank holiday and therefore the school half term is not exactly a surprise. is it forty years now that it has been the last Monday in May?

I would email her and explain the situation. Send in a copy of your hospital letter, and go as planned.

Hr

@ginsparkles

I'm not sure the boss is being unreasonable, he would normally have given you the day off but can't because 2 people are already off. I'm assuming if he gives you the day off too he can't get cover and will be understaffed if you have the day off too.

I would call and see if I could rearrange the appointment, also I would find out if the other people who are off are actually away or just having a day off, and see if they can swap a shift with you, I would happily do this for a colleague if I was just home with my child and I could alter childcare to accommodate

Agree with this. Very difficult situation but with two people off, it's a bit harsh to jump straight to the assumption the manager is unreasonable.

If it's only a couple of weeks, and providing it's for something non-urgent, cancel it and get the brownie points at work.

Will she fuck. Given her manager's attitude and how some posters replied, cancelling is expected and average employee behaviour. Work must always come first. No brownie points for that.

Is the appointment for a medical condition or something elective?

At our place I have only known requests be refused for laser eye surgery, cosmetic surgery etc if booked for days when others have already arranged annual leave.

I wouldn’t “call in sick” because you’re not sick, your manager already knows about the appointment so it will be totally obvious.

If the appointment is urgent and cannot be rearranged (most appointments can be rearranged, if you call and let them know in advance) then you need another conversation with the manager where you reiterate that you must attend hospital, you can’t work because of the length of time it will take with travel, and you will take it as unpaid leave.

Then what they do is up to them.