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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Should I refund?

50 replies

Daisyroselondon · 27/05/2021 12:24

Hello there, any advice would be gratefully received! I am a jeweller and have been talking to someone in Australia about making a ring for them since February. The quote I gave him back then expired (I give 30 days) and the materials needed for the ring went up by 20%. He countered by saying he would pay a deposit so that I could buy the materials and would I lock in the price I had given? He would then pay the reminder in June on completion. I said - ok great. He paid the deposit over a month ago and I duly went and bought the materials. He has now emailed saying he now needs to cancel said ring... Do I have any rights at this point? I feel absolutely sick at being so out of pocket!

OP posts:

HotToddyColdSauvignon · 27/05/2021 12:27

I’m presuming his deposit doesn’t cover the cost of the materials?

Do you have anything in a contract with him stating that once materials are ordered goods must be paid for in full?

Otherwise I think you may have to write this off op, but use it to change your t&cs for the future

Tibtab · 27/05/2021 12:27

Surely the deposit stated it covered materials and once purchased are non-refundable?

Ponoka7 · 27/05/2021 12:28

If you can use the materials then refund, if you can't then don't. Do you have your refund policy written on your Website/eBay etc page?

Original poster

Daisyroselondon · 27/05/2021 12:33

Thank you all. I stupidly don't have it in my t&cs as this is a completely one off experience regarding a deposit. There is a lengthy email exchange where we detail what was going to happen - i.e me buying the materials, him then paying the final half. And there's an email from me stating I've gone ahead with buying the materials needed along with with images. AHHHH! I'm such an idiot. Feel so sick! I need to add this to my t&cs

OP posts:

Original poster

Daisyroselondon · 27/05/2021 12:36

@Ponoka7 about half could be re-used, the other half is dependent on someone being the right size etc etc

OP posts:

honeybuns007 · 27/05/2021 12:43

I would think that the very nature of a deposit is to secure the contract and is non refundable due to materials being bought. What possible point would there be to deposits otherwise?

Donitta · 27/05/2021 12:44

In this situation I would not refund. Tell him it’s a non refundable deposit that has been spent on materials. If he objects then offer to send him the materials as technically he owns them. He will have very little legal recourse if he’s in Australia.

Original poster

Daisyroselondon · 27/05/2021 12:50

@honeybuns007 I agree!

@Donitta this made me smile, and I might offer to do this!

What makes me nervous, is that he insisted that he pay by Paypal. Fine. However, they are quite bullish on taking money back.

I've double checked my t&c's and there is a note saying anything bespoke is non-refundable so I do have that. I feel a bit foolish as this was one of those round the houses jobs and I probably should have ended it months ago!!

OP posts:

MasterBeth · 27/05/2021 12:50

Should you refund his deposit?

No, of course not.

It’s not clear to me if you’re currently out of pocket or you only will be if you give his deposit back. Why would you give his deposit back?

Exhausted4ever · 27/05/2021 12:54

Of course you don't refund, why would you? Deposits are non refundable

Original poster

Daisyroselondon · 27/05/2021 12:57

This is making me feel a million time better!

@MasterBeth I will be if I return his deposit. I'm just feeling out of my depth. Usually people pay upfront, I give them a product in return. This was a one off and I'm worried I didn't have a good enough contract with them.

OP posts:

idontlikealdi · 27/05/2021 12:59

A deposit is non refundable, that's the point.

Unless you are dealing in something with a serious price point I wouldn't even entertain an order from Australia assuming you are in the UK. What if it doesn't fit, gets caught up in import tax, recipient doesn't like etc etc. You need proper T&Cs.

cushioncovers · 27/05/2021 13:00

Deposits are non refundable as far as I know. Stand your ground op.

cushioncovers · 27/05/2021 13:02

If you are shipping worldwide maybe people's expectations of what a deposit means are different depending on the country??? but in the U.K. his deposit would be non refundable

Lovingspring · 27/05/2021 13:03

No way would I refund. You used his deposit to buy materials specifically for his ring. You cannot easily resell these materials, so fair enough you keep the deposit. What a pain in the A.. he sounds! What is his reason for cancelling? Not that it is relevant.

RestingPandaFace · 27/05/2021 13:05

Ring PayPal and ask their advice. I did this with a buyer who wouldn’t collect their goods. As I had rung them first and told me to go ahead and cancel his order without refunding they backed me when he complained.

Normaigai · 27/05/2021 13:06

Has he actually asked for the deposit back? I don't think anyone reasonable would expect the deposit back in that situation and he may just be trying his luck.

NeedNewKnees · 27/05/2021 13:08

That's the point of a deposit!

Original poster

Daisyroselondon · 27/05/2021 13:11

Thanks guys! He is. And I kind of felt for him, which is why I let myself get into this one. I made an exception for him and have made a lot of effort to accomodate him!

@RestingPandaFace that's a good idea!

@Normaigai he's asked what his options are for a refund.

It's a significant amount of money!

@Lovingspring very vague! I'm guessing he's changed his mind?!

I think I'm going to go with no but I can send you your materials.

OP posts:

TwoAndAnOnion · 27/05/2021 13:12

From this stems the rule that deposits in law are not refundable if the buyer cancels the contract before completion. If the contract does not describe the advance payment as a deposit and there are no grounds to believe that the payment is unconditional on the buyer's performance, it will be classed as a part-payment.

Original poster

Daisyroselondon · 27/05/2021 13:15

@TwoAndAnOnion Oh gosh, I had to read that twice. It was described as a deposit in our emails to each other - does that count? What does "that the payment is unconditional on the buyer's performance, it will be classed as a part-payment" mean?

OP posts:

LuvMyBubbles · 27/05/2021 13:16

Definitely don't refund anything, he has canceled the sale. But maybe deposits higher to cover costs before you start.

Librariesmakeshhhhappen · 27/05/2021 13:17

What does consumer law in Australia say?

In the UK, if buying online or over email or over the phone, then they are entitled to a full refund unless it is custom made. So, this was fall under custom made, meaning no refund via the distance selling regs. But that would really apply of the transaction and ring were completed.

With taking a deposit, it depends on the terms discussed. Deposits are usually non refundable, but you really do need to say that. He may not realise that you cannot get a refund on the materials.

You could try refusing and state that the deposit covered the materials which have been bought so is non-refundable. But I would just refund, because you didnt explicitly state that it was a non-refundable deposit.

Original poster

Daisyroselondon · 27/05/2021 13:18

Should I offer to send his materials? Or just state 'buyer has canceled the sale' etc

OP posts:

Sometimesfraught82 · 27/05/2021 13:18

I’m afraid that this depends on your contract if if ambiguous then the law is in his favour where a material term is ambiguous

Did he sign anything?

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