Should I refund?

[Daisyroselondon]

Hello there, any advice would be gratefully received! I am a jeweller and have been talking to someone in Australia about making a ring for them since February. The quote I gave him back then expired (I give 30 days) and the materials needed for the ring went up by 20%. He countered by saying he would pay a deposit so that I could buy the materials and would I lock in the price I had given? He would then pay the reminder in June on completion. I said - ok great. He paid the deposit over a month ago and I duly went and bought the materials. He has now emailed saying he now needs to cancel said ring... Do I have any rights at this point? I feel absolutely sick at being so out of pocket!

Don't send the materials. Contact PayPal for advice but you are out of pocket already.

I've just seen TwoAndAnOnion's post.

If that is from Australian consumer law then dont refund.

Custom made would not be refundable.

@LuvMyBubbles

Custom made would not be refundable.

But it’s not been made and this isn’t a refund

Offer him a credit note valid for a year for the value he has paid?

No, don't refund him OP. He paid the deposit so you could buy the materials, now he has changed his mind? Na. No go.!

Thanks everyone this is making me feel miles better. My heart rate has begun to settle down!

Don’t refund deposit
But you will have to forget about the rest

@Pbbananabagel not a bad idea.

Or I may say, I'll keep your materials for 3 months to give you more time. But it's a no on the refund

Hi OP. He paid you the deposit so you could buy in the materials and lock your price, so he should reasonably have expected you would use the money to do so and would be out of pocket if he were to be refunded, hence the deposit being non refundable. If the materials cost more that the deposit I think you hang on to them to make up the difference, if not offer to post them to him if he covers the postage (in advance). Make sure you write this all out clearly in an email.

If you wanted to be super generous you could say you will refund him the difference if you manage to resell the material, but he will have to wait if/until that happens (no chasing etc, too much hassle)- like a hotel room , in that if they resell it they are not out of pocket and you can have your money back.

Good luck.

I spoke to Paypal who were exceptionally unhelpful. I'm going with a no to the buyer. But if he raises a claim and it gets to PayPal really pushing me, I'll just have to make and send the ring for halfprice and chalk it up to experience. As at this point it will cost me more to refund him.

If you wanted to be kind you could offer a partial refund for the items you are able to reuse? Obviously he wouldn’t get refunded for the stuff that’s no use to you. If he whinges to PayPal it shows you made an effort to resolve it.

Thanks all for your time and thoughts, I really appreciate it. When you're a solo maker, end up rattling around with your own thoughts rather too much! xx

@Exhausted4ever

Of course you don't refund, why would you? Deposits are non refundable

This^

Can you not take the materials you bought back?

I want to see your jewellery!

My genuine only bit of advice of all of this is make your t&cs watertight
Also TRUST YOUR GUT. if someone feels even slightly hard work. Walk away. Do not engage do not be kind, do not be helpful. Don’t go over and above. I have done this so many times.
They are a type.
He did the PayPal thing on purpose.

@DrManhattan sadly not. Non refundable and all to his measurements

@HotChoc10 🥰

@Taliskerskye thank you. I’m really kicking myself. It was all hard work from the start and I was trying to be accommodating and kind.... I should probably print your post out and stick it to my computer!

@Daisyroselondon
Ha! No one learns the lesson of fucking areshole time wasters until they’ve lost money out of it.
It’s a right of passage!!!

I can spot them a mile off now. I say to my kind hearted young assistant
“TIME WASTER ALERT” I’m always right.
And now you will be too!

In a long winded way, the loss of money is actually going to be worth it for you in the long term.

@Taliskerskye

My genuine only bit of advice of all of this is make your t&cs watertight Also TRUST YOUR GUT. if someone feels even slightly hard work. Walk away. Do not engage do not be kind, do not be helpful. Don’t go over and above. I have done this so many times. They are a type. He did the PayPal thing on purpose.

Totally agree. He knew what he was doing.

Don’t refund a penny.

In the UK, if buying online or over email or over the phone, then they are entitled to a full refund unless it is custom made.

Not strictly true.

Distance selling legislation allows for a 14 day cooling off period. This clearly doesn't adhere to those rules.

After that statutory cooling off period, refunds are not obligatory and statutory rules apply

I'll just have to make and send the ring for halfprice and chalk it up to experience.

I wouldn't do this. If he pushes PayPal he might get his refund - if you send him the ring he gets that too. I'd try and sell it locally if need be. At least that way you will get some cash for it.

There’s 2 types of “deposit” in the industry I work in. One is an advanced payment on materials and if the client cancels, they can either have a refund or have their materials. The other type of deposit is to secure services and is offset again the total cost of the project further down the line (and is non refundable). Both are valid ways of working. If you haven’t been clear then how much was this “deposit” for? A percentage of the total fee? Or did you charge him simply for the money you spent on materials? Also in my industry clients have a consumer right to cancel the contract and totally change their mind any time within 14 days.