My mum wants to be included but not speak to my DFather or his family

[AmITheURDaughter]

My mum left my dad when I was a teenager (now in my 30s so approximately 15 years ago). I still don’t know why or care why they split.

I love both my parents and try and see both regularly. I am a single parent but DD goes to ExH EOW.

My mum refuses to speak to my dad, and my dad has no idea why. When they split up she refused to discuss any kind of settlement and it ended in court. She tried to stop me and my sibling seeing my dad too by banning us from seeing him (so we just got sneaky about it and were visiting friends when we went to see him).

Last week I met my dad in a beef garden had a meal and a drink. Mum found out and says she wanted to come. I said dad was there and she wanted to go and completely ignore him, she wanted to spend time with me apparently even though I’d seen her the day before and then a few days after. So she cried and told me I was excluding her from my life.

This happens regularly. My aunt on my dad’s side threw a garden birthday party for DD last summer, invited all my dad’s family including my dad and several children in the family similar aged to DD but not my mum because mum refuses to acknowledge any of them, plus my mum lives an hour from my dad and his family (I’m half an hour from both, about half way between the two). The party was the weekend before DDs birthday, and mum saw DD on her actual birthday and the day after it which my dad didn’t get to do. Mum cried when she found out and told my DD she was saying goodbye and hoped she’d see her again before she was a teenager because “mummy made me cross not letting me go to your party and obviously doesn’t want me to see you”.

For context I usually see dad once a week or once a fortnight, I tend to see mum 2-3 times a week as she works in my town and also helps me with childcare, so it’s not a case of me favouring dad over mum.

My DD will be 7 at the end of July.

So AIBU to laugh in her face next time she suggests coming to events with my dad especially if she wants to ignore everyone?

Your mum is massively unreasonable and extremely manipulative . I’d be having words about what she says in front of and to your daughter whether that upsets her or not .

If you find a way to stop this type of behaviour, I'd love to know. My mum's been at it for 25 years -since dad left for the OW. Everytime I think I've shut her manipulative behaviour down, she's finds a new way to play mind games with me. I'm mid-50s, and she's still at it.

@Gazelda

If this were your DP or DH behaving like this, it would be called controlling.

This.

Why is it that people put up with this sort of behaviour from their mothers when they would never put up with it from their husbands? The fact you came out of her womb shouldn't mean she gets to treat you in ways you would never tolerate from someone else.

@AmITheURDaughter

I agree with this. I would be very concerned about the things she may be saying to your daughter when you aren't around. I think I'd be making alternative childcare arrangements.

As far as I can tell she's not saying anything to DD when she has her over and I do think I'd know by now DD can't keep a secret at all - she's told ExH what she;s got him for Father's Day already, and had blurted out stuff she's overheard his colleagues say when he pops into work with her on his weekends.

Your mum doesn’t need to say anything to your DD, I’m sure your DD is well aware by your mum’s reactions to finding out you and/or her have spent time with your father’s family that there is a problem.

You say your mum and your DD have a good relationship. So, when your mum does eventually (if she hasn’t already) begin saying things to your daughter, why would your daughter not believe her? She loves and trusts her grandma. And wants her grandma to be happy - as all children do.

The longer it continues, and DD becomes more aware that seeing her grandfather makes grandma sad, your daughter may take on your mum’s feelings towards him and decide that she doesn’t want to see him. Or begin viewing him as a “bad” person.

It is incredibly insidious.

Op you seem to be doing the online equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears whilst La La La-ing
Your mum is being abusive to your child. No amount of yeah … but is going to change that.
Protect your child ffs.

You need to take a huge step back from her. She’s already emotionally manipulated you and now she’s starting on your daughter. In your shoes I’d find an alternative for childcare and avoid your mother like the plague unless she stops this toxic behaviour.

Your mother is behaving incredibly badly but I did wonder if you ever see your mother when she's not providing childcare. Ie do you go to a beer garden with her.

@RothRoth

Your mother is behaving incredibly badly but I did wonder if you ever see your mother when she's not providing childcare. Ie do you go to a beer garden with her.

Yes, I do different things with her though, she's much more a cafe for a coffee and a cake person than a beer garden. We meet a few times a week like that.

Your mum did not successfully alienate you from your dad, but it sounds like she tried to. And still is. To the extent that she's willing to pull another generation into it.

If I had my time again I'd come down on my mum like a ton of bricks at the earliest opportunity. That way I wouldn't have ended up estranged from her. I discovered that what I was prepared to tolerate, in the name of love for her when I was the child in the equation, shrank away to nothing when I realised she was using the same strategies on my then 3 year old son.

He is 21 now, and has no memory of her. I miss her, but one set of kids being exposed and paying the price of those choices was enough.

I'm so sorry you faced this as a child and are having to navigate it again with your own child involved.

I'd tell her that if she ever said such a manipulative thing to my child again that I would cut all contact with her and fucking guarantee that she wouldn't see DD again until she was a grown up.

She needs to grow right up. She's batshit - and whatever her reasons for leaving your Dad she handled them with the grace and dignity of a maladjusted teenager. She's still carrying on the secret dramatics of wanting to be the victim and all the sympathy without having the manners to provide any kind of reasoned, adult explanation.

I would stop her having DD alone & when she sulks, tell her why. She will be drop dripping her bike into DD even if DD can't articulate it just yet. (Yes, you'll need to pay fir childcare, but it's cheaper than therapy!)

The fact that you didn't go mad about what she said when you were there indicates just how used to this you are. You're not seeing the damage she's doing to both you and DD.

She's being completely bonkers and you need to be firm with her.

Mum cried when she found out and told my DD she was saying goodbye and hoped she’d see her again before she was a teenager because “mummy made me cross not letting me go to your party and obviously doesn’t want me to see you”.

I’d tell her that if she pulled a stunt like that, or the comments about your ex PIL, again then I’d be seriously limiting, or ending, her contact with your DD.

She tried to alienate you from your Dad - she’s still trying to do it. Now she’s showing the same tendency to try and alienate your DD from her other grandparents.

That’s manipulative and nasty and needs nipping in the bud hard and unequivocally.

@saraclara

Where there's smoke there's fire, and all that.

That is such a dangerous phrase, and leads to all kinds of malicious gossip in my experience.

I don't love the way this thread is turning into 'it has to be the man's fault somehow'.

Completely agree.

Not to mention that WHATEVER has happened in the past was at least 15 years ago so mum has no business making it OP's problem now, even less her granddaughter's.

I would understand more if OP was trying to get her divorced parents to attend things together and the mum was uncomfortable, but she is creating this issue herself by demanding to be there. She doesn't even need to be any part of conversations about what her ex is doing with their daughter.

@AmITheURDaughter

I agree with this. I would be very concerned about the things she may be saying to your daughter when you aren't around. I think I'd be making alternative childcare arrangements.

As far as I can tell she's not saying anything to DD when she has her over and I do think I'd know by now DD can't keep a secret at all - she's told ExH what she;s got him for Father's Day already, and had blurted out stuff she's overheard his colleagues say when he pops into work with her on his weekends.

Just be careful because although you think you would know what she’s saying to your DD you might actually not. My DB and SIL never knew half the shit their young DD listened too from my mother. She was very good at saying things that my DN could be accused of taking out of context if she said anything plus she would say it’s just our little secret, don’t tell Daddy Nanny said that cause he will get mad at Nanny and stop you coming over type of things. By the age of 7 my DN was so conditioned to listening to shit from my mother, she never told her parents anything. I once witnessed my mother telling my DN who would have been 7 at the time that her brother (DNs half brother) was a fucking pathetic prick, and what dose she expect with a looser for a dad and a mum who panders to him. My DN just sat their listening, when my DB turned up she gushed about what a great time she had had with Nanny... She would also get my DN to tell her things that were happening at home behind my DBs.

Before I’m asked, no I never said anything to my DB because I would have just been accused of stirring, It’s a very toxic situation the only thing I could do was remove my own DCs from it.

I don't love the way this thread is turning into 'it has to be the man's fault somehow'.

Me neither. But I've long been resigned to the reality that a lot of adults are incredibly adult-centric and place far, far more significance on the sex of which parent may/may not be in the wrong, with little attention or concern for the (former or actual) children at the sharp end.

Trying to find an organisation, or network for the now adult children of parental alienation has been a merry-go-round of wading through hundreds of places for parents accused of/accusing the other parent of alienation (not to mention all the people with a vested interest in saying we do/do not exist), but not a great deal for us.

I've come to the conclusion a good number of people don't give a shit about the kids themselves, until we are useful to make a point (then promptly dropped to focus on the "real victim"), or need to be hand wafted away as a lesser consideration in a counterpoint.

Bizarre, why is this suddenly a problem now?

"So AIBU to laugh in her face next time she suggests coming to events with my dad especially if she wants to ignore everyone?"

Yes, that would be unreasonable. Reasonable would be reading her the fucking Riot Act and telling her to grow the fuck up!

She is acting like a 6 year old with her 'I'm not talking to you and I want you to know that' and her 'I'm not telling' routines.

And what she said to your daughter! "... told my DD she was saying goodbye and hoped she’d see her again before she was a teenager because “mummy made me cross not letting me go to your party and obviously doesn’t want me to see you”." She's spent the last 15 years involving you and your sibling in her ridiculous shenanigans, and now she's involving your daughter.

Why are you not furious with her?