to think he should stop using the apartment as an office and pay to rent a co-working space or an office elsewhere?

[Elma2021]

I am in my thirties and live with two very good male friends of mine in a flat share. We have lived together for years and generally have a good time together and would happily keep living together in the future.

During the pandemic we all worked from home and managed to do it without killing each other! Now though, where we live has opened up and people can go back to the offices. One of the housemates has done that, the other works freelance online and has continued to work from home. I sometimes work unusual hours or take days off in the week so I am at home too occasionally. When my housemate is home working he sits in the living room typing or in his bedroom where he seems to shout very loudly into his zoom meetings so I can hear every word. The apartment feels like his office. My job is pretty stressful at the moment and I find it stressful that when I'm at home it is also an office. I can't relax when my dear housemate is stressed out and working close by. Also I can't use the living room to listen to music or cook or just relax because he is there on his computer.

He earns LOTS of money for the work he does, at least double what I earn, we all pay the same rent.

Am I unreasonable to think he should stop using the apartment as an office and pay to rent a co-working space or an office elsewhere?

He is a lovely guy and if I told him how I felt I think he would find a co-working space but I don't know if that is a reasonable request to make of him. Please let me know what you think! Thanks!!

I think he's ok to use the communal space, as long as he doesn't try to monopolise it or use it antisocially. So if you want to be on there, and read, have friends over, watch TV, it's no different to if he was there doing those things himself.

Providing that is the case, I don't think he should have to stay in his bedroom, any more than you should. It's space for both of you.

What would you do if he was quietly reading a book in the lounge?

If he knows you are home or likely to return, he should do Zion calls in his room, just as he would do social ones when people are around.

I do think you would be unreasonable to expect him to work away from give just because you are give more though.

My guess is he's just got used to it and hasn't got a lot of empathy

My guess is that he is doing what he has always done and doesn't know there is a problem because no one has said anything.

Just tell him you'd actually like to be able to use the lounge and relax on your days off so could he work in his room.

[quote IamtheDevilsAvocado]@Elma2021

But your comment Re upsetting him...??

But he's upsetting YOU!?

He really should be more thoughtful... He's had the benefit of using the communal space, when you're not there...but as you're now there more, it is unacceptable that you can no longer do communal space activities... Such as watching TV /chatting, without him shouting aggressively during work calls...

Would drive me nuts...

I would regaulrly work in communal space when I was house sharing... But I always put my stuff away. /moved to my room when others were there... Not least that much of the stuff I was working on was confidential.

My guess is he's just got used to it and hasn't got a lot of empathy... Its also pretty demanding/entitled to be honest...

If I was having an argument with a work colleague I'd be acutely aware of other people having to hear, if I'd not been somewhere private.[/quote]
Thank you!!!

If he's always worked from home then be has his routine.

You now are off during the week, and stressed, and you notice it.

You need to just carry on doing what you want to do eg watch TV etc. He doesn't get to dictate communal spaces.

Tell him you know your circumstances have resulted in a change to the home dynamics during the day and the apartment is primarily a home.

Tell him you might (at a considerate volume) play music/TV/be in the communal area cooking etc and ask if he can work in his room instead. Suggest he tries noise cancelling earphones if you distract him.

Let him know he shouts on zoom calls and ask if there is anyway he can lower the volume.

If there any opportunity to move bedrooms around so he has space/is further away from the living room so it is less distracting?

You need to work together and compromise to find the fairest solution.

I think you should tell him to only work in his room when anyone else is around. I find a co working space would be too expensive/rip off.

@OldEvilOwl

How much he earns is irrelevant. You cant request this but you should definitely have a chat about it and see if some compromise can be reached

It's not irrelevant. Co-working spaces cost a significant amount of money - I looked into it for myself and I couldn't justify the cost because I don't earn enough money (yet) from my business to justify it. It would be an unreasonable request to me because I wouldn't be able to afford it - but it would be reasonable to a number of other freelancers who earn much more than me.

Where did this housemate work before the pandemic?

I certainly think it's reasonable that you should be able to use your shared areas and that your home should not be an additional source of stress to you. Maybe put it to him in those terms?

Thanks everyone. It is really interesting to hear your perspectives and even though there are different opinions the consensus is to talk to him which I will do.

The reason I wrote about his earnings is to one let you know that he could afford the working space with no financial difficulty and two because I think it is gross to capitalize on our home and use it for an office. We all pay the same. He gets an office plus home. Plus no doubt tax right offs for using the house as a home. Plus the electricity bill doubled when he started working from home.

Meanwhile I feel stressed out by him using it as an office and can't use it when he is doing that. It seems unfair.

Is he actually shouting as in angry shouting? If he's just talking loudly because he's struggling to make himself heard perhaps a better microphone and a hearing test would be a better idea. Lots of men talk louder because they can't hear very well.

You can definitely ask him not to work in the living room, but not to stop working from his bedroom.

@BillyTodd yes exactly to your point about the relevance of his earnings! He is sort of talking/shouting in a alpha male at a meeting way. He has really good headphone and I think they are part of the problem as they are noise cancelling - since he got them he is louder.

Also, with everyone working at home more communally living is more of a challenge.

Might be time for you to get your own place

I voted YAbu but can see both sides. I’ve worked freelance since 2017 but of course post pandemic DH is now also at home and gets annoyed with the loud zoom meetings.

I’ve compromised a bit by setting up a new space for meetings, but I do feel “well I was here first” and that’s my own husband!

@Elma2021

Thanks everyone. It is really interesting to hear your perspectives and even though there are different opinions the consensus is to talk to him which I will do.

The reason I wrote about his earnings is to one let you know that he could afford the working space with no financial difficulty and two because I think it is gross to capitalize on our home and use it for an office. We all pay the same. He gets an office plus home. Plus no doubt tax right offs for using the house as a home. Plus the electricity bill doubled when he started working from home.

Meanwhile I feel stressed out by him using it as an office and can't use it when he is doing that. It seems unfair.

It does sound unfair on a number of points. Have you ever had the conversation about the electricity bill? Have you spoken to your third housemate, to see what they think?

If two of you are out of the house all day most days, I'd want him to pay the additional cost of electricity. It was one thing when you were all working from home, but this is now CF territory.

The electric etc should have come up long before this though. It’s not fair if you’re contributing for heating and electric for him to wfh.

I feel I should add another detail. I genuinely care for my housemate - we have been close friends for 15 years. I don't think it is good for his mental health to sit all day in his room alone at a computer. It is more comfortable in the living room so that's also why I feel bad saying something. I truly believe that it would do him good to separate his home and work life and have somewhere to go everyday.

@GappyValley

Your working pattern is the variable here, not his

Just because your working patterns changed to mean you’re now at home more, he doesn’t now have to find an office to accommodate your stress levels

If the deal was always that he worked from home, then you can’t insist on moving the goalposts now it suddenly doesn’t suit you

You can ask him if you and him can come to an arrangement about you both working from home, but he has probably got more reason to ask you to be out of the house during the day than you have of him!

Hopefully you can both find a compromise that works for you both and doesn’t financially penalise either of you

This is nonsense!! The OP has a right to relax and not have the shared spaces of her home used as an office during the day. They pay rent to use the property as a home first and foremost, not office space, so he definitely does not have more right to ask the OP to be out during the day.

Yabu to expect him not to work from home - that’s ridiculous and unfair. Yanbu to ask him to be a bit quieter and you should definitely sit down to discuss expectations - you should be able to listen to music in the living room (within reason) and if he needs quiet then he can go to his bedroom. However, the fact that you can’t relax/ignore his stress when he isn’t even interacting with you is your problem, not his, and it’s you that needs to make a change about that.

Talk to him OP. It may be uncomfortable but it will kill your friendship if you don't.

@Dishwashersaurouswasher

Im not sure about all the people telling OP to get her own place.

Not every person who lives in a communal space is doing it for economic reasons. She has said she is very good friends with the guy, so it would seem a little harsh to move out over something like this?

Increased home working is a permanent change from covid and we just have to get used to it. I haven't voted because I think there's a middle way that you put up with noise from his room, but he clears out of communal spaces when someone else wants to use them.

My husband's WFH permanently now. He works in our bedroom and takes his breaks downstairs, to create a separation between home and work. He thinks working in the room you sleep in is fine, and it's much more important that he separates work space and "relaxing awake" space so he can switch off and enjoy his evenings.

[quote ElberethGilthoniel]@Dishwashersaurouswasher

Im not sure about all the people telling OP to get her own place.

Not every person who lives in a communal space is doing it for economic reasons. She has said she is very good friends with the guy, so it would seem a little harsh to move out over something like this?[/quote]
Yeah exactly. We could all afford our own individual apartments but we are choosing to live together because we like living communally and sharing our lives. We go on holidays and have shared hobbies and friends and in most ways we get on really well and enrich each others lives. Moving out is not on the cards to be honest - I want to fix the problem.

I have been reflecting and I think I do need to make some changes in the way I am able to absorb his stress. I'm sure many could relax while someone else is working at the table so I should look into why I can't.

@Singalongasong

Increased home working is a permanent change from covid and we just have to get used to it. I haven't voted because I think there's a middle way that you put up with noise from his room, but he clears out of communal spaces when someone else wants to use them.

My husband's WFH permanently now. He works in our bedroom and takes his breaks downstairs, to create a separation between home and work. He thinks working in the room you sleep in is fine, and it's much more important that he separates work space and "relaxing awake" space so he can switch off and enjoy his evenings.

Am I the only one who thinks this is a really negative change in the way we live and work? It sounds like your husband has found a way to make it work and that's really good for you but I feel there are many people who could not sleep as well in the room they work in. I know I found it very difficult.

Employers are now getting free use of workers homes - they pay nothing for this and don't have the costs associated with running an office. All the mental and financial cost gets thrown onto the worker. Am I really the so rare that I actually like going to work - the change of scene, the proper desk set up, the colleagues, the mental space to focus on my tasks without distraction? Even the canteen food!

@Elma2021

I feel I should add another detail. I genuinely care for my housemate - we have been close friends for 15 years. I don't think it is good for his mental health to sit all day in his room alone at a computer. It is more comfortable in the living room so that's also why I feel bad saying something. I truly believe that it would do him good to separate his home and work life and have somewhere to go everyday.

See, this is where you tip into unreasonable.

You're his housemate, not his mum. I freelance from home and my mental health is tip-top, ta. If you go in with this angle you'll just put his back up. You need to clearly state what you want - that is, that the three of you need to have a conversation about using the communal areas. You need to say 'John, I'm now home during the week and want to use the area I pay 1/3 off at different times, so can you work from your bedroom please?' It's as simple as that.

The shouting on Zoom calls tbh I would address far more directly, as in 'Oi dickhead do you know how loud you are on Zoom? Get it sorted before I retaliate with house music at the same volume the next time you want a lie-in.'