Doing a masters with a 2:2 at undergraduate level

[jumpingjack5555]

Hi just looking for a bit of advice

DS 21 has just completed his third year on his undergraduate course, he has not got his degree classification yet but it looks very likely he will get a 2:2. He has applied for a masters which has a requirement of a 2:2 to be able to go on to the course. DS has been wondering whether a masters is the right thing to be doing with a 2:2 degree, he has said that he always would have thought you needed a 2:1 to get on to a masters but the requirement for his masters that he is applying for is definitely a 2:2. However DS also feels that if they accept him on to the course then surely they must think he is capable of taking on the degree otherwise they wouldn't accept him if they thought he would fail.

Does anyone have any insight and know if there DC's have gone on to do a masters with a 2:2 in their undergraduate degree and how it turned out?

It depends a lot on the master's degree in question. But many of them are not much more than an extra year of first degree teaching. Usually the pass mark is 50%, which is the 2:2 threshold for a first degree. I think he's likely to be fine in terms of passing, if he does the work.

I'd be a little more careful about whether it is actually worthwhile for him. Again it depends on the discipline, and the university. To be fair it's probably easier than usual to justify spending an extra year in education in the current climate. But it is an expensive way to kill time.

Some universities regard masters courses as cash cows, especially if they're not too discriminating about who they accept - bear that in mind too.

I have no experience in this area but I think it is interesting that your ds himself is even questioning it.

No disrespect to any current students (and I count several from my extended family in this cohort - you can only operate within the system in front of you) - but 2:1s and Firsts are easier to come by now than they were 30, 40, 50 years ago. I think if you can't get a 2:1 at University now (and again, I'm including some family members here, I am not intending to insult anyone - we all find our level in life), then doing a masters at this point might not really be the best next step for you.
That isn't to say that later on, once involved in a work place or on a career path, that they might not go on to study for a masters relevant to that, but "study for study's sake" is probably better suited to those who either put a lot more effort in, or are naturally more academic whilst doing their first degrees, in my opinion. To reiterate, I am not particularly studious nor academic myself and have done well in my career - they don't necessarily correlate.

Some universities regard masters courses as cash cows, especially if they're not too discriminating about who they accept - bear that in mind too.

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Why does he think he is heading for a 2.2? If it is a combo of not studying/covid/health then a good masters might mitigate a lower degree grade. If he studied really hard and still got a 2.2 then he needs to seriously assess if he will manage the workload. A masters is fairly intensive.

Perhaps it depends what sort of masters it is exactly - some are more 'specific taught skill' type of thing than others, and if it's of that type and it's a route towards a chosen profession then that's a different matter to the more research type ones I'd have thought.

will it really assist him in his career path to go for the master's, and even if it might, does he need to do it at this stage.
if he can get a job, maybe he could do further training later, and with the experience of work, be better able to choose the most useful course.
good luck to him.

Ds has always been someone who has tried their best in their work, this year with uni being online his grades have been lower. In his 1st and 2nd year he would get a mixture of 2:1s and 2:2’s, in 1st year he even got a 1st in one assignment. However this year all his assignments have been 2:2’s, the only mark he has left to receive is his dissertation mark. DS wondered whether online learning has resulted in him getting lower grades this year.

Just to add his undergraduate degree is in education and his masters would be in education as well

My DB got a 2:2 in the field of science. He was mightily pissed off and grumbled away to himself for a while about it being unfair but I strongly suspect the grade was justified.

However, he went on to do a Masters the next year and then after that did a PhD in the same subject. All from a 2:2.

He's now got an outstanding career in an area that he loves, and had some fantastic experiences along the way. My DB, bless him, wasn't especially great academically at school in general and only ended up in university through an alternative route, he didn't do A-levels. But he found his niche and specialising really suited him.

If he's got a place, then why not try it? If he finds that it's not for him, he can always withdraw. If he doesn't do it, will he always wonder what would have happened if he tried?

I did. And I was pregnant on both courses (not that that will apply to your son of course!)
I got a 2:2, finished course in July and had DD in August, had a year out then did a Masters the following year. No3 son was born one Thursday and graduation was the following Thursday.
I passed the M.Sc

In education, he could be really gifted at the communication side of it or with special needs or passionate about it in general... In which case I would encourage him to develop his skills towards his talent and passion. However if he's considering this to delay getting into the classroom, don't even consider it.

With a 2:2, I think he should get a Masters. People who say Masters degrees aren't necessary/are just cash cows for the university, are always people who don't have one and so consider them unnecessary as they did okay without on. But in my experience, people who do have a Masters will have an advantage over those who don't in a field like education (work in education myself) and as your son has a lower degree grade, a Masters will help make up for this. If I got a 2:2, I'd definitely do the Masters.

I’d think carefully about it. What does he need the masters for? If he already has a degree in education what additional benefits will the masters give him? If he’s going into teaching he might be better working for a year or two to get some experience then going to do his masters. I’d discourage him for now if he was just doing it to get another year in uni with his mates.

I did this. 2.2 in my BA. my MSc was in a related field that I was more passionate about. I graduated that with a distinction. It opened up so many more doors for me. Most grad schemes wouldn’t look at me with a 2.2 for example but many accepted the MSc. And given the focus of my career, the in depth knowledge from my MSc was pretty handy.

This was 17 years ago mind you and things may have changed. But for me it was the kick start I needed.

I have a 2.2 and a Masters. The Masters was fine, intense as pp have said. I don’t think I’d have got into my current job without the Masters - I think I was up against some well qualified candidates. (Not in education.)

I did. I didn't work hard enough on my BA but I was perfectly capable. Masters ten years later so with greater maturity and harder work I achieved a merit.

I've got a 2:2 from Oxford and am about to embark on an MSc in a completely unrelated field, 20 years on, with a view to getting a professional doctorate after that.

Has your DS thought about getting some work experience before he tries a postgrad year?

It surprises me how many people are querying what the point of a Masters is. These days so many people have a degree that it doesn't set you apart as much as it used to. However a Masters will differentiate a CV and will always grab the attention of a recruiter. I would certainly encourage him to do it if he wants to.

Would it be worth deferring the masters until he has some practical experience? My sister did a masters in education and found her classroom experience really helped with critically examining theories and drawing links between theories and "constraint bound" application.

I am currently doing a masters (24 years after I finished my undergrad) in a field related to my profession and have found the same thing.

If the Masters degree is in education it is not worth it. He will start on same salary with or without it. In teaching you get promoted on performance or shortage subject. It will just add another year of debt he will end up having to pay back and delay him earning a wage. His best option is to get s teaching job straight away.

I'm an admissions tutor and lecturer on a (fairly big) Masters programme with a minimum 2:2 entry. One thing I can say for certain (because we keep the stats!) is that degree result at undergrad level is no predictor at all of success at MA. We have plenty of people with firsts at UG who struggle (and sometimes even fail) at MA and plenty of people with a 2:2 who get a Distinction. This is why we take 2:2s in the first place.

So many variables can change between undergrad and postrgrad that there is just no way of predicting. We get students who studied hard through their undergrad who come into an MA over-confident that they will sail through, slack off and then struggle. Similarly we get students with 2:2s who never put in their full potential at undergrad and now are much more focused at MA level. Some students struggled more with the wider breadth of an undergraduate programme but find that a more specialised, focused Masters really suits them. Life circumstances can change (both favourably and unfavourably) between undergraduate and MA.

I would disagree though with what someone said up-thread about an MA being like an additional year at undergraduate level - certainly in humanities/social sciences that is definitely not the case, and the step up from level 6 (final year undergrad) to level 7 (Masters) is quite a big one in terms of the level of analysis and critical thinking needed, and the amount of independent work expected, and the speed with which you need to adapt to this change.

If your son wants to do the MA, has a genuine interest in it and is prepared to work hard, then I really doubt that the 2:2 will be an obstacle to him. We do though get some students who (once we get to know them) it is clear they came to do an MA either because they wanted another year of a student lifestyle or they didnt know what they wanted to do next and thought doing an MA would buy them some time to work it out. These students generally struggle more regardless of their undergraduate degree result.

If the Masters degree is in education it is not worth it. He will start on same salary with or without it. In teaching you get promoted on performance or shortage subject. It will just add another year of debt he will end up having to pay back and delay him earning a wage. His best option is to get s teaching job straight away

Not everyone with an education degree goes into teaching - there are plenty of other careers within the education sector, and for some of these a specialist masters would be a real advantage, if not essential.

@caringcarer

If the Masters degree is in education it is not worth it. He will start on same salary with or without it. In teaching you get promoted on performance or shortage subject. It will just add another year of debt he will end up having to pay back and delay him earning a wage. His best option is to get s teaching job straight away.

If he wants to be a teacher, then just get into the classroom. You can do masters degrees while teaching, at which point you'd do a specialism you actually have real experience of. He's just had 2 years of messed up school experience too, so not a good basis for getting further into debt in my opinion. I'm a teacher with a 2.2 non education degree and an MSc and an MA.

Students on Masters are assumed to be able to self start a lot more, more self sufficient. There is support available of course for wellbeing and academic support etc but we tend to assume that there will be less hand holding. Do you think he is that kind of student? And do you/does he think that if we have to pivot to online learning due to lockdown restrictions (quite likely and the planning is in place for this) he'd cope with learning from his bedroom for another year. They've had a rough trot this year, so he may be emerging from this with more resilience than he would have in a normal year.

The person in my school who did the masters regrets it. In education its experience/ enthusiasm for the job that will put you above others for a job.