I live on £1100 a month in London - is that 'hand to mouth'?

[kingsolomon]

After housing costs (£700), my take home salary is £1100 - single parent, two young children. I just read a case study from some research about a mother with two teens who gets £277 a week in benefits and subsidised housing, so pays £88 a month. So she gets about a £100 a month less than me in hand (but is not in London so maybe that balances out the same - also probably pays less council tax). They are described as living 'hand to mouth', and the woman says she is 'totally skint' and they frequently have to use candles when they run out of electricity. The case study also mentions debt issues (which I don't have - but I'm not judging anyone for getting in debt when I don't know their situation), and maybe she is not very good at managing money for whatever reason. I'm not trying to make a direct comparison with this particular person, to boast about myself or to put blame on anyone else. I was just shocked to realise that what I earn could be considered 'hand to mouth' when I don't feel that we are doing too badly! Am I way more hard up than I think? Would you consider yourself poor on what I earn?

BTW, this is absolutely not an anti-benefits thread. I believe in the welfare state and even universal basic income, depending on how it is run. And the fact that most people eligible for benefits are in work, so basically subsidising corporations to pay wages so low they can't support a family, is a scandal.

I'd say hand to mouth suggests no money leftover for savings at all.
The debt could be a large portion of monthly outgoings too.
Teenagers are more expensive to keep than young children they will eat like adults!

I think a lot of it depends on how you use your money. If you are crafty, can cook well, have a DIY attitude and don't crave the latest technological gadgets then your money goes much further than it does for others.

I don’t think you can really compare. Everyone’s outgoings are different , for example I pay £160 a month on my gas and electric and I was shocked to hear of people in similar situations to me only paying £50 a month on both (not even sure how that’s possible!) pointless comparing

How much money do you have left over after all your bills and expenses are paid? Because I'd say I have about £1200-1400 (though I also have dh who has similar), but that is truly after all household bills are paid - after housing, childcare, food shopping, electric. It's what I'd use for personal expenses like clothes or petrol for my car or my mobile bill. I think that's quite a lot of money and I never run out.

But if you're saying you spend, £1000 of that on household bills and childcare and other essential expenses and only have £100 left over for an emergency or leisure expenses, yes, I'd say that would be pretty close to struggling. I think it completely depends on how close you are to running out of money at the end of the money.

Agree you are underestimating the cost of teens - food, travel to school, uniform/clothing - plus debts which are unlikely to be at a low interest rate.

Debt can take up a huge amount of your monthly income. I have debts and my monthly debt repayments are higher than my mortgage.

If you're paying for childcare and/or a car, you would be skint!

I assume you have a mortgage or else you'd probably be entitled to housing benefit in London. You'll also get child benefit, so that's a bit extra there.

A lot of the time when people say what they earn, different people describe it in different ways, so it's not always comparing like with like. Plus council tax in London is often a lot less than it is elsewhere.

But how someone spends their money shouldn't be a factor. Someone shouldn't consider themselves poorer because they spend more so run out of money. Being 'crafty, cooking with cheap ingredients, and not having the latest technological gadgets' so their money goes much further is a choice available to everyone. People shouldn't feel entitled to more money because their wants are higher.

From my privileged position, your situation sounds pretty close to hand to mouth to me. And at that level of income, I can easily believe having £100 less per month (plus teens) could push you to the very brink.

I guess, to me, hand to mouth is not having anything left at the end of the month which, combined with no savings (hard to save if there is nothing left, not a judgement) means that any extraordinary/unexpected expenditure (washing machine breakdown, school trip) puts a real pressure on the household budget.

So to me "comfortable " is when there is some slack in the system (spare money, savings) to put a cushion bw me and unexpected events or for things like holidays.

The £700 is literally only the rent. I have about £300 left until I get paid in 5 days. No car!

How are you covering childcare?

Yeah I don't really know what your point is but outside of London she'll be spending more on council tax and public transport (no free child travel for starters) so that's two of the biggest fixed outgoings she's sunk on.

I get free 30 hours and work around school hours (v flexible job)

I guess my point is that I read it and thought 'that's about what I get!" and then thought I have never thought of myself as living hand to mouth, but maybe I am?! But I do agree, a direct comparison with some random case study doesn't make sense. Just wanted to gauge opinions I guess - I never talk about money with my friends.

Ok

£300 to last 5 days is not living hand to mouth.

I think the key thing is you have no debt and no car.

We live in London on average wages, some of our friends earn a lot more but are constantly saying they're skint. What they all have in common are debts and cars (which we are lucky not to have).

Also agree teenagers cost a lot more!

Oh and regarding teens, ds2 has grown 6 inches over the last year. The cost - in food, new shoes, new clothes- has been phenomenal, even if you avoid all the branded stuff they desire.

I wouldn't not describe you as "hand to mouth" op but you clearly manage well on a budget, many don't. I would consider your income to be low for london, and can easily see how most people would find life a struggle on it, with £100 less tipping them over the edge.

Eg on £1100 a month after rent, many people would easily get through 300 on council tax, phone bill, internet, and utilities, and another £500 on supermarket shop including food, toiletries,cleaning products etc. Another £100 on public transport wouldnt be unusual.

That only leaves £200/month for general life spending - socialising, children's hobbies and activities, adult hobbies, gifts, xmas, saving for holidays and having rainy day money for if the white goods break etc.

In my view, the mostly costly part of living in London is housing. Once that's taken care of I think rest of living is cheaper than provinces. So for example:
TFL - travel is reliable and reasonably priced. Notwithstanding disabilities it is practical to not have a car.
Council Tax - londoners don't have three layers of county, district and parish council to pay for. My London council tax is far cheaper for same band than family who live outside.
Choice of shops - I can walk to a street market, Tesco, Lidl, Asda and two large sainsburys in under 15 mins. Even a quick pint of milk is purchased at supermarket prices.

My partner grew up outside of London and calls it the provincial premium. Even my supermarket petrol is cheaper than the one petrol station in my mum's tiny town.

Do although £300 is tight, I think it would be much tighter outside of London.

No-one with £300 left for 5 days is living hand to mouth!

If you have £300 left at the end of the month then you're not living hand to mouth. I watching Rich House Poor House last night (yeah, I know!!) and the poor house had £57 a week to live on after bills (I'm never sure if that's just basic utilities & council tax or they also include mobiles, wifi, TV etc in the bills). That was to feed, clothe and anything else for 2 adults, a teenager and a primary school aged kid. I honestly don't know how people do it, my supermarket bill for 1 person is often more than that.

I must be hand to mouth to then. Yet I manage to have takeaways, book flights, pay into 2 pensions and accumulate savings.

I hear of people earning more than double of my salary claiming to be skint. It’s puzzling.

I think some people are awful with money.

£700 rent in London? Are you house sharing? I haven't seen any 1-bed or even studio flats that cheap.