I live on £1100 a month in London - is that 'hand to mouth'?

[kingsolomon]

After housing costs (£700), my take home salary is £1100 - single parent, two young children. I just read a case study from some research about a mother with two teens who gets £277 a week in benefits and subsidised housing, so pays £88 a month. So she gets about a £100 a month less than me in hand (but is not in London so maybe that balances out the same - also probably pays less council tax). They are described as living 'hand to mouth', and the woman says she is 'totally skint' and they frequently have to use candles when they run out of electricity. The case study also mentions debt issues (which I don't have - but I'm not judging anyone for getting in debt when I don't know their situation), and maybe she is not very good at managing money for whatever reason. I'm not trying to make a direct comparison with this particular person, to boast about myself or to put blame on anyone else. I was just shocked to realise that what I earn could be considered 'hand to mouth' when I don't feel that we are doing too badly! Am I way more hard up than I think? Would you consider yourself poor on what I earn?

BTW, this is absolutely not an anti-benefits thread. I believe in the welfare state and even universal basic income, depending on how it is run. And the fact that most people eligible for benefits are in work, so basically subsidising corporations to pay wages so low they can't support a family, is a scandal.

It's shared ownership but no mortgage as I had money left to me and bout the share outright, so I just pay the rent and service charge

If your rent is £700, how do you have £300 left at the end of the month from £1100? What about bills, food, etc?

Being 'crafty, cooking with cheap ingredients, and not having the latest technological gadgets' so their money goes much further is a choice available to everyone.
I'd contest this somewhat.
'having the latest technological gadgets' yes, generally speaking an average person doesn't 'need' them. But it depends on work. I know many people who work as artists, which is not well-paid (and it's especially hard to earn money from some types of art in a Covid world). They need decent cameras, good laptops etc, not to mention materials, which don't come cheap.

Cheap ingredients are not easily available to everyone. I (in London) can walk to supermarkets in various price brackets as well as cheap grocery shops and markets. Not everyone can, and if you don't have much money you may not have a car to get you to a cash and carry or a big supermarket with good deals.
Plus, cooking with cheap ingredients can be really hard and require planning, electric/gas and other resources that aren't always easily available if you're on a budget. For example, bags of pulses etc are dirt-cheap, yes, but many people have never been taught how to prep or cook them. And veg can be very cheap, but again, if you don't have experience or confidence in cooking it, it can be hard to know how to, or to make it appealing (especially to kids).

@myfuckingfreezer

If your rent is £700, how do you have £300 left at the end of the month from £1100? What about bills, food, etc?

AFTER housing costs her take home money is £1100

If your rent is £700 and your income is £1100 per month how much is council tax, insurance, gas & electricity, water rates, service charge and ground rent if you live in a flat, food, clothing etc.what happens if something breaks down
Also come teenage years senior school uniforms are a fortune as well as providing food and all the extras they need like computers for school work etc.
What happens if somethings suddenly go up.

I think you are missing out a part of your income or you have someone paying certain bills. Or you are in a very precarious position.

I would not call it hand to mouth. I lived on roughly the same, also London with two small children, but had full childcare cost (£2K in your situation of one in school and one in pre-school) + £1500 housing. Was simultaneously in the top 5% of earners and below the poverty line according to the child poverty cut-off calculations. Sometimes arbitrary cut-offs don't make sense, given how varied the expense profile of a single parent can be.

Well I'd say you are low waged, as I earned more than that in London in the 90s as a graduate trainee, and I had no kids. But you seem to be managing fine, so does it matter what anyone else thinks? I agree with others that you might struggle when your kids get older though.

If your rent is £700 and your income is £1100 per month she has £1100 after paying her rent.

AFTER housing costs her take home money is £1100

Oops, thank you!

My income is 1800 or so. 700 is for rent and service charge, which includes water and hot water. Elextric is cheap as its a small flat, well insulated. Internet is 30 and an old phone on a 6/ month contract, licence fee 12/ month but no other TV. Walk to school, work from home, so no travel costs. I cook from scratch, vegetarian, occasionally eat out but on the cheap end. Can't remember what council tax is - seems high, but I never knew its more outside London.

I guess I am both lucky (e.g in the flat not needing much heating, kids young enough to not care all their clothes from charity shops...) and quite thrifty. Anyway, its interesting to hear other peoples thoughts.

In terms of budgeting tips, I suggest you find out what your council tax is. You're already nearly two months behind for this year btw. Get cracking!

By my reckoning it's cheaper to turn on the light than burn a candle ...

(Misses point of thread and exposes horrible ignorance of poverty.)

I pay it! It's direct debit, I just can't remember

@kingsolomon on that income you should be entitled to universal credit to pay towards the debt part of shared ownership.

@Hellocatshome

£300 to last 5 days is not living hand to mouth.

Agree. £30 to last five days would be.

Hand to mouth, to me, is spending everything you earn and having nothing in savings. They take it down to zero every month.

Even fairly high earners can live h2m if they live a champagne lifestyle. I know plenty that do, in fact.

Yes, it's easy to forget the exact amount of one's biggest outgoing after rent. I do it all the time.

I remember living in London and being worried the cash machine would swallow my card going into the last week before payday. That's hand to mouth in my book. But then I had £1200 before paying my rent and any other bills. No children though.

I know people with inherited houses who live really good lives in London on 30k. It’s just the housing costs that are awful there - otherwise it’s actually fairly cheap for transport / food etc compared to other parts of the country.

council tax about 120 or 140, something like that. I don't know why you are being sarcastic about it.

@SuziQuatrosFatNan

Yes, it's easy to forget the exact amount of one's biggest outgoing after rent. I do it all the time.

Well that's not council tax then. Food? Transport? Holidays? All likely to be bigger than council tax for a lot of people.

Not if that's after housing costs.

Money management isn’t taught in schools anymore so lots of people just don’t have the skill set, especially if their own parents were shit with money. It’s super easy to get into debt then find yourself suddenly in a position where you’re struggling to repay it. Once you’re trapped in the debt cycle, it’s hard to break free. Most of your spare cash goes on the debts so you’re left with very little.

Gas and electricity is extortionate. We pay about £120 a month for ours and haven’t been able to find a better offer. Teenagers definitely cost a lot more than young children because they eat a lot more, demand expensive clothing (which naturally costs more because they’re bigger) and gadgets to fit in with their mates, want to go out with their friends so need money etc.

I think a lot of people do struggle in London, but you seem to be doing fine. The family on TV living on £57 a week are living hand to mouth, imo.

I wouldn't call having £300 and getting paid in 5 days time and having a pretty secure roof over your head 'hand to mouth' and wouldn't call it poor either, I'd call it getting by well enough.
If you can afford to not know how much your CT is you really are doing just fine.

I'm London too and if I said what we live on wouldn't be believed so no point.

I have to know how much each unit of electricity is, and when to turn it off when each day's quota is used up.

I don't call myself poor but would admit we are only just scraping by and everything is spread too thin over too little and has been for too long, so anything breaks or gives out it can only be replaced through freecycle.

I would be over the moon and very grateful if I could get a job paying your sort of wages. What is it you do?