To be shocked the librarian was so poorly read?

[bendmeoverbackwards]

In the library recently reserving some books for dd. Librarian had not heard of A Handmaid’s Tale and did not know that As you Like It was written by Shakespeare.

These are not exactly obscure books!

AIBU?

Snob

@QuestPerSay

Based on your nasty snobbery, I'm assuming you're referring to some sort of ritual sacrifice of people who can't name the minor characters in Romeo and Juliet.

Yeah the natural progression from what l've said is that people should be 'ritually sacrificed' if they disagree with me...

As I've previously posted - libraries are the only thing that prevent access to knowledge from being a class issue.
But, for that to really be true, you need a knowledgeable library worker to be available to guide the patron to the information that they require.

For example, someone who doesn't know that 'As You Like It' was written by Shakespeare might easily be able to use the library catalogue/internet to find out.
But, upon seeing that the 5 copies of 'As You Like It' that were held by their county were either at other libraries (or out on loan), would they think to search for 'The Complete Works Of Shakespeare' instead?

That title would obviously contain 'As You Like It' - and is likely to held by most libraries. But, an inexperienced worker might not think in the ways necessary to be able to find it

Even if they didn't think to do that, but the Complete Works wasn't available - would they know that for most cases, the copyright for dramatic works is usually author's life + 70 years, which means that the copyright for Shakespeare expired loooooong ago, which in turn means that you can find it online, and again that one of the most reliable places for expired copyright works (bar paid-for online resources) is The Gutenberg Project?

Librarians need to know stuff to help the public know stuff.

To eliminate the disadvantage that comes from the ability (or not) to access decent resources - you need decent library staff.

Well said!

It always shocks me that people think you can slash library provision by over 50%, close down numerous librarian courses at colleges, and employ volunteers and people with ZERO training, and then complain that the staff haven't heard of your pet author. People like this live in some 1960s wonderland when everything was well resourced and the ruling party valued learning for its own sake, rather than just for an elite few

Libraries on their own can't prevent knowledge being a class issue.

For a start using the library requires a reasonable amount of free time.
It requires you to already read to a reasonable level (they don't teach it there).
It requires you to be able to get there so usually, but not always a bus or car is needed.
I think you mean it helps people access the knowledge they want. They're not some sort of magic cure for inequality. I also find it hard to believe that people who discount others' for random general knowledge really care about people who have not been as fortunate as them culture and opportunities wise. Or indeed tea wise.

But I don't think anyone is going there to brush up on their Shakespeare play listing knowledge or name prime ministers. I hope not anyway as it's superficial nonsense.

I thought most people were working on trying to forget the last decade of PM's anyway.

@LindaEllen

That's like expecting supermarket checkout operators to know every single product the supermarket stocks. Unfair and incredibly judgemental of you.

No I wouldn’t expect a checkout operator to know ever product. But surely after 6 months scanning thousands of products they would know quite a lot? I bet those who have worked there 20 years know them all.

I think a professional librarian should know those basic facts. It's like a florist not knowing the names of popular flowers, or chefs not knowing common ingredients.

I think a lot of people in the past who couldn’t afford books would totally disagree with you. It was a gateway to a better life for many many people in the past. A refuge from chaotic home life, somewhere to read and study in peace. A place to find out about the world. Most working class homes did not contain books. There wasn’t the space, the leisure to read or the money to buy them. That’s still the case for many families. Unfortunately access to good resources and knowledgeable librarians is disappearing , apart from in academic libraries.
I worked in a school for a while with many underprivileged kids from other countries. They would often visit the public libraries after school to do their homework and look for books to read, whilst they waited for their parents to get home from work.

Actually it is Labour councils who choose to divert funds from libraries as this makes a good headline. We have a LibDem council which seems to like libraries. Those who are roaring “snob” and “classism” are displaying their own prejudices and that the masses should be served up as limited a cultural diet as is necessary to keep them in their place.

I can’t believe the poster saying that their “librarian” is a welfare officer and their job is to run the food bank etc. Well then it’s not a library, is it? Call it a community hub. We have a community hub place, but it is quite different from the library, which does indeed have community activities, but hosts knitting groups, internet help classes etc.

Professional librarians (as has been said many times already) don’t tend to work on the issue desk. A library assistant may or may not know who wrote AYLI or Handmaid’s. A good one will be happy to search the catalogue (the metadata record should note each title and should be searchable), refer to their colleagues if necessary and go out of their way to be open and welcoming to the customer - all of which (in my many years of being a library manager of multiple sites, albeit in another sector) are far more important skills.

This has been a most interesting thread

@mermaidsariel - me too,. I’m glad to report that school libraries are still places which contain books and that many of the “old-fashioned” and “out-of-date” librarians have found a roost in these.

I enjoyed recommending books to a wide range of pupils whether the book was Guinness Book of Records (world’s longest ear hair was a popular page) or an adventure series they might not have considered.

My colleagues in the school libraries would find your description of them as 'old fashioned' and 'out of date' quite amusing. Good school librarians recognise the importance of digital technologies to enhance learning and engage pupils. Recommending books to young people who are interested in that particular activity may still be a part of what they do, but so is coding, gaming and so on. Time continues to march on, thankfully.

[quote IrmaFayLear]@mermaidsariel - me too,. I’m glad to report that school libraries are still places which contain books and that many of the “old-fashioned” and “out-of-date” librarians have found a roost in these.

I enjoyed recommending books to a wide range of pupils whether the book was Guinness Book of Records (world’s longest ear hair was a popular page) or an adventure series they might not have considered.[/quote]
Yes. Exactly.

The Handmaid's Tale has sold 8 million worldwide.
Hunger Games 28 million.
Both dystopian fiction. Both put on screen. Would you be as surprised if the librarian hadn't heard of HG? Is knowing them more important than say, The Queen of the Yearling, which hasn't been televised. Why? Why not?
Supposedly Emma Watson is lined up to play the lead in it. Is that what changes things?
If so it's not the text the librarian is expected to know but the adaptation.

Has it been a while since you worked in a school library?

@MaMelon - it was other posters who were nastily calling librarians old fashioned. Of course I don’t think school library workers still cling to a stamper and ink pad, and naturally they are clued-up on the necessary technology, but the point I was making is that they are still first and foremost about reading .

Actually, they're not first and foremost about reading - reading is only part of what they do.

mermaidsariel
Many of my students use the school library like that, though we are very fortunate to have an experienced librarian and staff who are willing to staff it as part of their duties. Part of the librarian's role is the administration of the library, part is researching books that our students would like, part is running book clubs, part signposting students to information, part is shop assistant for the school equipment shop, part involves supporting literacy intervention, part is facilitating lessons that take place in the library, part is outreach to other schools, part is supporting schools that don't have much library provision, and part is being the default IT technician when students crash a computer at lunch or cause a paper jam in the printer. She also is an invaluable source of pastoral support for vulnerable pupils, works with the SEN team to help advise texts for those with specific learning difficulties. She's very knowledgeable about young adult fiction from 10-16.

Regardless of how some people on this thread think the world ought to work, the role of a school librarian is very different to the staff in public libraries.

How patronising! The world is not a levelled playing field. I love reading but have only read most younger books from reading with my children who absolutely love reading, I didn’t read a lot growing up because we didn’t have books to read where I grew up and was educated. We have so much joy reading together as a family, my children are members of the local library since they were toddlers and I am looking to start volunteering at our local library which is struggling to stay open due to lack of funding. I have read a lot but I am sure there is more I have not heard about but I can already picture the snobbishness of some. You may have a point but why are you shocked?

I'd like to know what makes As You Like It an essential to know but Titus Andronicus, Henry VIII (or whatever play you feel is unimportant) are ok to not know or remember.
I mean what are the rules?
Do we have to know all the novels considered classic or only the ones you know?

I don't think anyone has laid down 'rules' for which Shakespeare plays people should be aware of on this thread, have they?
The OP just happened to ask for AYLI. She could easily have started the same thread having asked for Titus Andronicus and the library person didn't know it was Shakespeare.

I just can't fathom an English teacher not having heard of Chekhov. 'not having heard of' being the operative phrase
Then you show a very limited understanding of the range of disciplines that English teachers come from.
I can absolutely see how a linguistics graduate with no interest in Russian dramatists wouldn't know a dramatist that isn't on the curriculum.
No. He's a major modern dramatist, even if he is Russian(did you deliberately put that in to try to make it sound like Chekhov is more obscure than he is? )
If someone is teaching English and doesn't know Chekhov (as opposed to having or not having an interest in him; that's immaterial) they simply do not have a good enough broad knowledge of their teaching subject.
As ever, we come back to "I don't understand how people don't know the things I know".
No we don't. Someone like Chekhov is canonical. We come back to, if anything, 'what is the canon'/'who decides who's on it and why', which, as I've said, are valid points but another thread really.

Do you think everyone knows Titus Andronicus then?
I doubt it.

But, upon seeing that the 5 copies of 'As You Like It' that were held by their county were either at other libraries (or out on loan), would they think to search for 'The Complete Works Of Shakespeare' instead

Once they knew it was by Shakespeare, I think so, yes. And on our catalogue I am pretty sure it would come up as an option anyway.

As for the Gutenberg project, that isn't going to help the person who comes into the library looking for As You Like It, because they could have reserved it online if they had reliable internet access at home.

However, I totally agree that a wide knowledge helps librarians and library assistants provide a better service.

Exactly @SunnydaleClassProtector99 - and that’s absolutely OK. There are a myriad of other things that a library assistant should know that are more relevant (and key) to the role.

@JMR185

I think a professional librarian should know those basic facts. It's like a florist not knowing the names of popular flowers, or chefs not knowing common ingredients.

As many posters have pointed out, few public libraries are staffed by qualified librarians anymore. Some may have paraprofessional qualifications.

If someone is teaching English and doesn't know Chekhov (as opposed to having or not having an interest in him; that's immaterial) they simply do not have a good enough broad knowledge of their teaching subject

But English teachers teach English books, not translated books. As a German graduate I would not expect English teachers to be familiar with Goethe or Heinrich Boell.

@IrmaFayLear

Actually it is Labour councils who choose to divert funds from libraries as this makes a good headline. We have a LibDem council which seems to like libraries. Those who are roaring “snob” and “classism” are displaying their own prejudices and that the masses should be served up as limited a cultural diet as is necessary to keep them in their place.

I can’t believe the poster saying that their “librarian” is a welfare officer and their job is to run the food bank etc. Well then it’s not a library, is it? Call it a community hub. We have a community hub place, but it is quite different from the library, which does indeed have community activities, but hosts knitting groups, internet help classes etc.

I assume that’s aimed at me. I didn’t say she ran the food bank - I said she helped with the uniform bank that’s run from the building and helps run the groups that run in the library.

She is a retired welfare officer. What else would I call her when that’s what she is? Helping people access the computers and local services is a bigger part of her job now - that’s just fact and is presumably why of all the people that went for the job she got it. More people go to the library here for access to that kind of information than they do to learn Shakespeare.

Having a couple of different jobs on the go is also the only reason the library is open the hours it is.