To think being single should be recognised in law as an unreasonable basis for discrimination?

[OneLovelyDay]

I've just discovered (learning to drive later than others) that apparently it's unreasonable to charge women less for car insurance, but apparently fine to charge single people more than married people.

There's loads of things like this that discriminate against single people, although some not as directly. I'm thinking things like council tax discount, which should be 50% for living alone, not the 25% it is.

More broadly, it's interesting how society has accepted (to some degree) alternative family arrangements but not singleness/childlessness. I could marry and start a family with another woman and it would fit with societies' expectations (and financial incentives) more than being single, or having children alone by sperm donation.

I find being single totally an acceptable thing, don't feel the need for a partner in a day to day sense. But hoping for a family and a ticking biological clock reminds me that it's not my choice to be single. So I don't think it's acceptable for society to discriminate like this. (But also even if someone chooses to be childfree and single that should be respected and treated as legitimate and fulfilled life!)

I was reminded of it particularly harshly in the first lockdown in 2020, when people not living with a family were not supposed to go within two meters of another human, and there was no outcry. It was a real jolt in terms of realising how society views us as different/weird/not normal (thus not entitled to the same basic humane conditions, in that instance).

Fortunately most of my friends are either single or not the joined-at-the-hip with partner type. But sometimes these things crop up and I'm suddenly reminded that my life and needs are not considered as legitimate as those in couples or with children. At the moment this is happening a lot as I'm about to take a drop in income and so going through bills working out where to save money.

I just think it should be illegal to discriminate for things like car insurance based on single status, and more broadly that people should consider this issue and not treat single people differently, in the same way people have started to consider racism, homophobia etc.
AIBU?

why should single people get even more of a discount when they're taking up the same amount of property

Because council tax isn't calculated based on how much of the earth you occupy.

It's based on what your council needs to make up its funding shortfall tiered according to what the houses were worth in 1998. Even if the houses weren't built in 1998. It's an illogical regressive tax and it's not based on square footage or use of services or any of the other things being claimed on here.

I have been in both positions. Married with children then a lone parent due to being widowed.
Basically my bills did essentially double as I was paying all the essential bills on one wage. I suppose it is fair as I am using those services. I was unaware of the car tax issue but if those are the facts, yes it is unfair.
The child benefit thresholds are discriminatory as are inheritance tax thresholds ( children of single parents hit again). I think it would be helpful to have it recognised in law as it would help to prevent anomalies that unfairly penalise single people or parents in public policy making. It’s hard enough.

@trixies I didn’t mean exactly that “being in ones 20s is a privilege” I meant that the pp was speaking from a position of privilege because she hasn’t experienced what it’s like to be single when the majority or your peers are partnered.
But In any case I disagree with you entirely. Of course being young can be a form of privilege, depending on the topic that is being discussed.

@Bizawit

And being old can be a form of privilege too. Like when posters here like yourself discount your opinions just for being young despite the fact that you're still a fully functioning adult who works and pays tax like everyone else

So... it’s not that simple. Single people get some discount, which is fair, but they clearly don’t use half the resources of a couple, so a 50% discount would be too much (and would leave councils cripplingly underfunded).
Why isn't it 25% extra per extra adult if there are more than two in the household then? Extra adults use more council services just as a single person uses less.

That would be a quite sensible approach @kowari

Why should their though? It's already been explained multiple times that council tax is 50% the property, 50% the occupants, and that why single people get the discount they do. Unless we started evicting people from houses they don't fill (which massively contributes to this countries house crisis btw, but I doubt would be popular) why should single people get even more of a discount when they're taking up the same amount of property (because council tax is already banded) and already get a discount based on occupancy.
If 50% is the occupants then why do four adults in a property pay the same between them as two adults?

@boredbuttercup yes being old can absolutely be a privilege, but I certainly don’t accept that I was exercising that in this debate with you, by pointing out that you don’t really have direct experience of the type of ‘discrimination’ the OP is talking about . Also I certainly don’t consider myself to be old. Thx.

@boredbuttercup
There are differences as you get older. I was happy to share with other adults when I was younger. It was a positive experience. Now it would be really difficult as I need space for my children and family privacy. The two situations are not comparable and nobody knows what situation they will find themselves in in the future. This wasn’t my plan.

[quote Blackberrycream]@boredbuttercup
There are differences as you get older. I was happy to share with other adults when I was younger. It was a positive experience. Now it would be really difficult as I need space for my children and family privacy. The two situations are not comparable and nobody knows what situation they will find themselves in in the future. This wasn’t my plan.[/quote]
Exactly

The single person supplement in hotels etc feels very unfair.

Haven't RTWT but I'm confused by this one. Surely most hotels charge by the room...it's up to you whether you put 1 person or 2 people in it. I thought the single person 'supplement' was more of a discount on package holidays so a single person didn't have to pay the whole room price. Though if a single person ends up in a tiny room with a single bed, I can see the unfairness in it!

I agree with boredbuttercup.
You are out of your mind if you think society is more accepting of same sex couples than being single and child free.
When single I was never quizzed by colleagues about my sexual practices and I was never passed over for promotion with spurious reasons.
I was the victim of far less crime on my own than being out holding my partners hand. Over the years we’ve been been heckled, followed, spat on, punched, kicked, had drinks thrown on us and our property/vehicles vandalized.
When out with our child alone I face no more discrimination or risk than any other white woman but when we are out as a family people think they have the right to comment on our suitability as parents due to our relationship. We’ve had men ask for a threesome or yell dyke when in the presence of our child. My partner is treated as a lesser parent for not having carried our child and we feel “othered” at most parenting groups in a way our single mum friends say they aren’t.
Also many young LGBT faced having to go back to their abusive parental homes during the pandemic and the resulting harm received far less airtime than the concern for single people so again single people weren’t discriminated against the model for disease prevention just wasn’t nuanced to fit their needs.

@bizawit

Well you discounted my opinion on account of me sounding young so must consider yourself old by comparison to me at least.

And as I said before, I have exact experience of not being able to live alone due to the cost of the council tax, despite wanting to. But rather than claim i'm being discriminated against i accept living alone vs with housemates is a choice and one i will have to wait until i can comfortably afford it to make.

@Jellybabiesforbreakfast

a supplement is an additional charge not a discount.

I’ve been totally priced out on some holidays where the single person supplement was more that 50%.

Who is not considering your life and needs as legitimate? The government because you don’t get greater financial discounts for being single than you already do? Society at large - how? Lockdown doesn’t reflect anything other than a society adjusting to a different way of life, and mistakes are made when that happens. Mistakes that were rectified when the repercussions were realised.

Tbh I don’t care if you’re single and childless. I don’t care if you’re married and childless or have a dozen kids. You’re not being discriminated against, you’re not a victim and it’s really bloody stupid to start viewing yourself as one.

Well I hope things go to plan then @boredbuttercup. Like I said, life throws curveballs.
@Peoniesandpeaches This is a thread about discrimination against single people. I could talk about other forms of discrimination here but it’s not the point is it.

[quote boredbuttercup]@bizawit

Well you discounted my opinion on account of me sounding young so must consider yourself old by comparison to me at least.

And as I said before, I have exact experience of not being able to live alone due to the cost of the council tax, despite wanting to. But rather than claim i'm being discriminated against i accept living alone vs with housemates is a choice and one i will have to wait until i can comfortably afford it to make.[/quote]
Sigh. As I’ve pointed out numerous times, you are in the majority/ a normal situation for your mid 20s. As you have pointed out everyone goes through their 20s.this is not the same as being in the same situation but much older. I didn’t discount your opinion because you are young, I discounted it because you were trying to insert yourself into the scenario, yet were speaking with - imv- a lack of empathy,
I surmised this must be because you are young and therefore haven’t really experienced what it’s like to be single when the majority of your peers are
Parnterned, and all the forms of financial and social disadvantage that can entail.

For what its worth

I don’t feel victimised or discriminated against as a single person, its absolutely not comparable to racism or homophobia

There are however certain things that irk me, mostly Council tax, single person supplements and discounted ‘family tickets” which mean 1 parent families end up paying more per person

@Blackberrycream

Well I hope things go to plan then *@boredbuttercup*. Like I said, life throws curveballs. *@Peoniesandpeaches* This is a thread about discrimination against single people. I could talk about other forms of discrimination here but it’s not the point is it.

It’s relevant because the OP stated it is. She said that “alternative family arrangements” were more accepted than being child free. I was illustrating how I felt it wasn’t. In fact as someone who is LGBT I can go further in saying society is more accepting of me as single and child free than as a mum.

@Blackberrycream

The point is OP isn't being discriminated against. And frankly comparing it to racism or homophobia and the discrimination that goes with those is insulting to those of us who live with that discrimination day in, day out.

We must have different experiences OP. I am single, have been for a decade, and I have never felt discriminated against at all for being single.

I've been discriminated against because I took maternity leave and probably because of my age, but never because of my single status.

@boredbuttercup
I’m really not being insulting ( my family are from a Jamaican background) It is an issue. Not as great an issue as others but still, does that mean it can’t be discussed without this one upmanship.

But OP directly compared them as issues of the same scale. That is incredibly naive and insulting

In some countries
It is price per hotel room, not per person

@boredbuttercup

But OP directly compared them as issues of the same scale. That is incredibly naive and insulting

This is going to be my last comment. I am not insulted. Maybe that is because I am older and have experienced both. I’m not particularly interested in a hierarchy of who has experienced the most discrimination. If there are practical issues that can addressed that seems worthy of discussion.