To think being single should be recognised in law as an unreasonable basis for discrimination?

[OneLovelyDay]

I've just discovered (learning to drive later than others) that apparently it's unreasonable to charge women less for car insurance, but apparently fine to charge single people more than married people.

There's loads of things like this that discriminate against single people, although some not as directly. I'm thinking things like council tax discount, which should be 50% for living alone, not the 25% it is.

More broadly, it's interesting how society has accepted (to some degree) alternative family arrangements but not singleness/childlessness. I could marry and start a family with another woman and it would fit with societies' expectations (and financial incentives) more than being single, or having children alone by sperm donation.

I find being single totally an acceptable thing, don't feel the need for a partner in a day to day sense. But hoping for a family and a ticking biological clock reminds me that it's not my choice to be single. So I don't think it's acceptable for society to discriminate like this. (But also even if someone chooses to be childfree and single that should be respected and treated as legitimate and fulfilled life!)

I was reminded of it particularly harshly in the first lockdown in 2020, when people not living with a family were not supposed to go within two meters of another human, and there was no outcry. It was a real jolt in terms of realising how society views us as different/weird/not normal (thus not entitled to the same basic humane conditions, in that instance).

Fortunately most of my friends are either single or not the joined-at-the-hip with partner type. But sometimes these things crop up and I'm suddenly reminded that my life and needs are not considered as legitimate as those in couples or with children. At the moment this is happening a lot as I'm about to take a drop in income and so going through bills working out where to save money.

I just think it should be illegal to discriminate for things like car insurance based on single status, and more broadly that people should consider this issue and not treat single people differently, in the same way people have started to consider racism, homophobia etc.
AIBU?

@mrsm43s

But a lot of this is because a single person is choosing to have all to themselves what a couple share.

So if a single person lives with another single person, they pay exactly the same council tax as a couple. But if they choose to have a property all to themselves and not share, then that is obviously going to be more expensive than a shared property (in council tax, rent, purchase price, utilities etc). If a couple choose to live separately rather than sharing, they pay exactly the same as a single person living alone. There's no premium for being single, a person pays a premium if they choose to have the whole property to themselves and not share.

Ditto with a hotel room. If a single person shares with another person, they pay exactly the same rate as two people in a couple sharing. But, if they want a whole room to themselves, rather than sharing with someone, then obviously it costs more - because they have a whole room not half a room.

It may not be a choice to be single, but its absolutely a choice to live alone/not share a room etc.

I can't think of a situation where a single person pays more for getting the same as someone sharing. Typically they pay more because they get more. An individual person having exclusive use of anything is always going to cost more per person than the shared equivalent.

I actually find some of the ideas in here quite disturbing

a single person is choosing to have all to themselves, what a couple shares,
If I choose to have a property, god forbid, ALL to myself, what is that about?

Yes thank you I will choose to have all to myself the house that I pay the mortgage for. I have no problem in paying my mortgage all by myself and living in it all by myself.

Sharing with a partner is not the same as sharing with lodgers. I have lived with a partner. When I bought this house I couldnt afford the mortgage and the renovations so I had lodgers. Some were great, some were OK, most were a pain in the neck.

That part of my life is over. Yes I’m going to have my house all to myself.

Or because I’m single should I take up as little space as possible?

@Ted27

Of course you can have it all to yourself.

But as you said, you choose to do so. Therefore, as it's a choice you've made, you can pay for the privilege, a privilege many of us don't have. What OP is trying to say, which the rest of us are refuting, is that it's not a choice, it's a burden, and therefore asking people to pay for the privilege of having a house to themselves, not sharing any of the facilities that come with it, is somehow discriminatory. That's what we disagree with.

ted27 The only disturbing idea that has been raised in this conversation is that single people require the same protections as legally marginalized groups. Sure there are some inconveniences and tribulations being single both social and financially but it’s hardly worthy of being a protected characteristic.
Nobody is saying single people should take up as little space as possible after all every single poster has at one time or another been single and could return to that state at any point.

Some of the "discrimination" on this thread is truly batshit. The wedding present one was a strong start and it just went on from there...

I was very clear in an earlier post that I do not feel discriminated againt as a single person and I would absolutely not claim any inconveniences are in the same league as homophobia or racism.

I don’t think anyone has agreed with the OP on that. I havent seen any other single person agree that being single should be a protected characteristic. I don’t think I’ve read any single person complaining about paying their mortgage or bills themselves. Of course its not discriminatory.
Nor do I think I am more priviliged than a couple who own a house. I live modestly, according to my means and don’t have many of the things that a lot of people on MN see as essentials
But that wasnt what the op was about - it was about a specific issues, the car insurance etc which can seem unfair. It was other people who started debating how single people should organise their living arrangements

I was denied NHS funding for IVF as a single woman because only heterosexual or same sex couples were worthy of the funding.

But hey, at least I get my wheelie bin all to myself.

In many, many occupational pension schemes, if a married pensioner dies, the surviving spouse is entitled to a 50% pension until they in turn die. A single person is entitled to nothing, despite having paid exactly the same amounts into the scheme.

This is an obvious unfairness to single people, who could lose out on thousands of pounds. If you look at typical annuity rates, a single-life policy pays around 8% more than a 50% joint life policy.

A couple may use less bin space than a single person. They may hardly be there to use the bin or compost everything. They don’t get a reduction. It’s not pay per use it’s based on your house. Why should council tax not contribute to roads? Is it expected only drivers will pay, do you not walk, cycle, use a bus, cross a road? Give the present you can afford, you don’t have to give the same as a couple would. In fact how on earth do we even know what everyone else is giving anyway. If your friends are doing rounds as a couple instead of individual either don’t go in on rounds or tell them it’s unfair!

many many people do not CHOOSE to have a property to themselves. Single pensioners who have lost their other half of the couple are not living on their own by choice. Coupledom does not last for ever - I am not sure how many 'single by divorce, death' people living in their own house there are - but there are lots of them
As I explained up thread there is a logic behind the 25% less council tax
Other (mainly minor) financial burdens if you are not one of a couple are less obvious but unfair all the same

Those who have never been singletons or find it easy to say - just share with someone have no idea of how difficult that gets. Fine when you are young and you see it as a temporary state

@excuseforfights

In terms of council tax, being a single person doesn’t mean you use 50% less of council provided services than a couple does. The houses of single people aren’t generally half the size of those of couples, your bin isn’t emptied half as often, your car doesn’t do half as much damage to roads etc.

I disagree. Single people are more likely to live in 1 bed flats and they will produce rubbish for 1 person not 2 or more and they will have less people to ferry around.

Then they will be on a lower council tax band which is cheaper.

As of 2021, approximately 8 million people lived alone in the United Kingdom.

@OneLovelyDay ‘ I could marry and start a family with another woman and it would fit with societies' expectations’

As a woman who married another one and had children with her, you can be assured that our family for the most part really doesn’t not fit in with societal expectations. I’m fairly sure you get less sh&t about being single than we do as a lesbian couple, and as a lesbian couple who decided to have children together.

@IntermittentParps I think, fwiw, you're wrong about feeling more discrimination I a couple, it's just not the case, being in a partnership opens more doors than it closes generally. It sounds like you have more of a partner issue than a discrimination one.

@Fluffyowl00 very sorry to hear that, you are no less deserving simply because you don't have a man in tow, or woman.

NHS funding is supposed to be for medical problems.
IVF for a male-female couple with medical issues - yes, their reproductive systems aren’t functioning as they should.
A single person/same sex couple not being able to have babies is not a medical problem. I put it in the same category as cosmetic surgery

@Fishandhips

Then they will be on a lower council tax band which is cheaper.

How so, a 1 bed flat can house 2 people?

[quote excuseforfights]@Fishandhips

Then they will be on a lower council tax band which is cheaper.

How so, a 1 bed flat can house 2 people?[/quote]
Of course it can, but the poster I was replying to said that single people were more likely to live in 1 bed flats as a counter argument to utilising services such as bin collection; the size of the property is taken into account through banding so the person in a 1 bed property will pay less. Also, a couple and a single person in the same property, the single person will still pay less.

Yes but a single person also uses less services and produces less rubbish.

I'm married. I was treated differently by Anglian Windows who wanted to know when my husband would be back "due to finances" and to get his permission to order windows. I earn more than my husband by the way. Anglian were quickly shown the (non glazed) door.

@HandsOffMyRights they do that you can't use the excuse of 'I need to talk to my partner' to get them to leave. It's not about you being a wife.

@Fluffyowl00

I was denied NHS funding for IVF as a single woman because only heterosexual or same sex couples were worthy of the funding.

But hey, at least I get my wheelie bin all to myself.

I was also denied NHS funding for IVF because my husband (not me) already had a child. It's not about being single, it's about treating medical infertility and rationing because the NHS is not a bottomless pit. Women over a certain age or high BMIs are also excluded.

I was also denied NHS funding for IVF because my husband (not me) already had a child. It's not about being single, it's about treating medical infertility and rationing because the NHS is not a bottomless pit. Women over a certain age or high BMIs are also excluded.

That's also shit, but it's not a race to the bottom. And a couple have more chance of saving for IVF treatment than a single person, so still worse for single people.

@excuseforfights

Yes but a single person also uses less services and produces less rubbish.

and they pay 25% less still, not sure what's hard to understand.

I'm saying 25% isn't a fair discount. Single people are paying 50% more than people in a couple.

From the examples above, it doesn't sound as though single people are being discriminated against (ie someone actively doing something 'against' them), just that life is expensive and not always fair.