To say this is rude?

[PiedPiper558]

Replying with 'what?' when you have not heard what someone has said.

My friend's mum says 'what?' alot. English is not her first language and she has a strong accent. Asking for clarity in a quick way, that is easily said in her accent, and easily understood ('pardon' would unlikely be so clear), 'what?' Is a very useful phrase for helping her communicate that she hasn't understood what a person has said before they continue. She says it politely..it never feels rude.

What is fine. It is possible to say it politely - it depends on the tone of voice you use. Pardon is awful.

LemonRoses

you do realise that you can say something else than either "What" or "pardon".

but I think I’d roll of my chair laughing if my manager said Pardon to me. of course you would...

@lazylinguist

I don't know any parent who doesn't correct their child when they reply with "what" and it definitively sound rude if said to a teacher

I have never corrected my dc to say pardon. And I am a teacher.

that doesn't mean you have any manner 🤷

Of course, tattleandbagels, it was you who suggested that everyone would correct their children for saying “What” rather than the ghastly, refined, “Pardon” or worse, “Sorry, Pardon?””

No, I cannot imagine my line manager ever saying anything so middle-aged, little England as “Pardon”, unless he was teasing someone.

I hate pardon with a passion. In fact, I hate it so much OH is not allowed to correct DD with it, especially since he doesn't use it himself.

"Sorry, what?" Or "Sorry, what did you say/can you repeat that?" are more than good enough.

Bugs me to no end when school staff correct children and model "pardon" complete with a posh accent and keep banging on about how much nicer and politer it is and how awful "what" is.
You're not the fucking Queen mate, you can't pardon anything.

@askingrandomsonlinemighthelp

"What" is correct. Everything else is considered déclassé in "proper" circles.

It's all a load of wank really.

Agreed. But I still say What. Pardon is an appology, what are they appologizing for.

Pissed me off when other adults prompted my dc to say pardon 🙄

@LemonRoses

Of course, tattleandbagels, it was you who suggested that everyone would correct their children for saying “What” rather than the ghastly, refined, “Pardon” or worse, “Sorry, Pardon?””

No, I cannot imagine my line manager ever saying anything so middle-aged, little England as “Pardon”, unless he was teasing someone.

I said that everyone I know (and the school) correct children when they say "what". It's rude.

I never mentioned "pardon" I don't even use it!

You just decided that it must be one or the other for some strange reasons.

I also said that in real life, adults don't say "what" when you call or speak to them in most settings. So if it's rude then, it's rude all the time. Easy.

"What" is short for "what did you say?" and is perfectly acceptable, unless pronounced "wot", (with glottal stop) in which case it is somewhat rude.
Pardon is one of those words like settee, commence and serviette, which sociolinguists ascribe to the "lower" socio-economic strata of society.

What is definitely not rude. What a weird thing to be bothered about.

Now I've got
'I beg your pardon
I never promised you a rose garden'
on a loop!
I hate it when any adult corrects a child to say pardon - almost as bad as making them say ta instead of thank you. Grrr.

God. My MiL was here this weekend and corrected DS telling him to say pardon. Really got on my nerves. My DS is polite it's just the way he talks, I don't find it a massive problem as he also says pardon as well.

There’s a book called watching the English which i read quite a few years ago now but it perfectly describes the peculiarities of English language and the class system (most of which is pretty subconscious). There’s a lot more similarities between the so-called upper and lower classes, and the aspirational middle classes are where these perceptions of ‘politeness’ come from. The upper classes would use what, where the middle classes would use pardon and consider what terribly rude.

I hate this idea that not only is “pardon” incorrect, but it’s only used by people trying to be posh. I’d bet that most people who say pardon are not thinking “I want to use the word that makes people think I’m posh” they’re probably thinking “I was taught this is what is polite”.
Little did they know, snobs not only think they’re rude, but Mrs Bucket types as well.

Oh God are you my friend OP? Yesterday I was at the soft play with a friend and she asked me a question and because I couldn't hear over the screaming kids I (quite loudly) blurted out 'WHAT?!'. I felt bad after as it probably did sound rude, but it just slipped out!

that doesn't mean you have any manner

No, that doesn't mean I have. But I have. I'm actually a very polite person. As are many people who have been brought up to say 'what' rather than 'pardon'.

If anyone is showing a lack of politeness and manners, it's the people who are insisting their word is the right word and everyone else is wrong and ill-mannered (e.g. you), or Hyacinth Bucket. As opposed to the people who are politely accepting that there are different and perfectly acceptable ways of saying things (e.g. me).

KFleming

God, I totally agree. Reminds me why I need to stay off mumsnet really! I was always told that 'what' was rude, I certainly wouldn't say it. I usually say 'sorry', I think but I may well say pardon. Well, now I know that many people are shuddering and cringing at me, just another thing to feel anxious about!!!

I am amazed by how rude people can be out and about though so I wouldn't be surprised if some people who insist that they're polite might not know how they come across!

Pardon? Is only uttered by those looking to argue with a manager or generally start a fight. Very aggressive. Be that overt or passive in tone.

Pardon? Is only uttered by those looking to argue with a manager or generally start a fight. Very aggressive. Be that overt or passive in tone.

Really? So everyone who ever says pardon, including those who were taught to do so from being little, is being aggressive or trying to start a fight?

@redheadwitch

Well, the "proper" response would be "pardon?" so in that respect, then yes, "what?" is technically rude. Its not something I could get steamed up about, though.

I think it very much comes down to the scenario its being said and the tone. For instance, if I was having an important medical consultation and the Dr said "what?" in a snippy tone, it would come across as rude. If a doctor was chatting to a colleague at the nurses station and misheard a comment and said "what?" it would simply be colloquial speech.

In posh circles’pardon’ is frowned upon for being common. My step- mother would always tell me to say what instead and the I’d get told off at school for being rude!

I'm not sure what's worse - 'what?' or 'eh?'.

@KFleming

I hate this idea that not only is “pardon” incorrect, but it’s only used by people trying to be posh. I’d bet that most people who say pardon are not thinking “I want to use the word that makes people think I’m posh” they’re probably thinking “I was taught this is what is polite”. Little did they know, snobs not only think they’re rude, but Mrs Bucket types as well.

Yes. @KFleming. My impression is that ‘pardon’ goes quite a long way down the class system and isn’t necessarily an attempt to be genteel. This was my problem with ‘Watching the English’ mentioned by @ibblebibbledibble above. Whilst she claims some sort of academic detachment, the author is ultimately prepared to dismiss a large part of the population as trying too hard and failing, when in fact their own code works perfectly well and they are fitting in with each other rather than trying to be upper class.

Saying Pardon is like saying Toilet. If you're happy with one, you'll be happy with the other.