LTB

[Poptart4]

LTB.... this is a phrase that is often said on MN. After a big fight with my OH this weekend I started to think about the realities of us breaking up (we're not btw, it was just a fight) Anyway I realised I can't actually afford to LTB.

Currently work 3 days. I know for a fact my boss would give me full time hours if I wanted them. But even working full time theres no way I could afford full time care for 4 children. I cant even afford child care for the 3 days i work. I've no family to help as they are all busy with their own families and jobs. And I know OH wouldn't be in a position to help either due to his own job.

I would have to quit my job and go on social welfare. I dont want to do this because firstly it would be a massive lifestyle change going from being comfortable to scrapping by. And secondly because quitting my job and being single would be hugely isolating for me. I don't have alot of friends and the ones I have would be working anyway so I'd be spending the majority of my time either with my kids or alone.

AIBU to think that for a large majority of women Leaving The Bastard just isn't that easy?

I've noticed that alot of people on MN have high paying jobs or partners in high paying jobs. Is this why they're so quick to advise LTB? Because money isn't an issue for them.

BTW I'm not talking about women in abusive relationships where they or their kids are in danger. Of course they should LTB. I'm just talking about everyday average relationships that are not going so well.

I don’t think it’s easy to ltb but I say it a lot because I read a lot of shit on here that people are just putting up with

It's difficult to know people's individual circumstances (even from a long post) but I think sometimes it's just worth saying that the op is worth more than xyz situation she is describing.

I read that a lot on here (written in different forms) and I think it’s just not that easy and (not including the abuse ones) I sometimes think that no one is perfect. I could write a post where people would say that about my DH but I also know he puts up with a lot from me.
With two children under 5 despite the fact that I’ve got a well paying job I’d still have barely any money if we split up and that does become a factor in these things.

Did you include looking at UC levels with your earnings and childcare?

If it's not good how little help you get in order work.

But if you did LTB you would hopefully get CM for four children which would be a help towards Childcare, or if you had a 50/50 shared care agreement child care would be your ex responsibility on his days. He might not be able to do the childcare but he could sure as hell pay for some of it although fully appreciate this relies on them being reasonable and fair (!) Also if you are on a low income you would get help towards Childcare through UC and still be able to work.

I think that you are discounting the emotional abuse that children suffer in some of the less abusive situations. I've never seen it advised in situations that doesn't involve some sort of abuse. There will be financial hardship for a few years, but that's better than throwing your children's mental health under the bus. There's many posts were it's stated that at least one of the children has anxiety and it's easy to see why, from the outside.

Your situation, with four children is difficult, but most have only one child and are advised to get out before they are stuck with more children.

A) I’d rather be on welfare than be abused. I grew up in a poor, workless household - I know it’s no fun but better than the other.
B) I earn enough that I could support myself. I made sure I did after my upbringing.
C) My husband would undoubtedly pay half of costs like those.

It's definately not as easy to leave as people think. My friend wants to ltb but can't. She is a SAHM with three children. If she went back to work she could not afford childcare, if she went on benefits it wouldn't cover bills, food, car etc. Her husband has a good job but he will not move out of the family home. My friend cannot get help with renting somewhere as she has a home. DH keeps threatening that if he does move out she can pay the mortgage on the house and he will pay her 30 euro per child. She has stayed at home to raise their children and supported him in his career and hobbies and its really sad. My heart breaks for her.

Surely if you are married the house and property is 50/50 and childcare cost halved.

I would have to quit my job and go on social welfare. I dont want to do this

If the relationship was bad enough you'd want to!

You wouldn’t be entitled to social welfare if you quit your job. They don’t accept applicants that have purposefully made themselves jobless without good reason for 6 months after you’ve quit. You however would be entitled to help with childcare costs if you continued working.

@StoneofDestiny, unfortunately not. My other friend is now divorced after a long drawn out battle. Ex husband did leave the family home as it suited him and refused to pay anything towards the mortgage. My friend eventually came to a deal with the bank after two years of worry that she would lose the family home. Ex husband pays very little in child maintenance and nothing towards hobbies, clothes etc.

I agree with you, I’m a single parent to 4 and it isn’t easy at all, I don’t get maintenance either like some people seem to magically think everyone gets. People advise it way too easily, I wouldn’t advise being a single mum to 4 (unless there is abuse of course)

It's incredibly difficult. I did a year working but hardly earning anything due to childcare. Then I did a 2 year MA that included 200 days of placement, worked evenings & weekends (my eldest was old enough to supervise the other kids by this time) & lived on a tiny budget. My ex did absolutely nothing. No financial or practical support because he wanted me to fail & the system enabled him to do that. It was financial abuse & coercive control & he should have faced consequences for it.

I now look back on those few years & I start to shake & feel sick. I genuinely believe I've got PTSD from it. I had virtually no down time, was doing 2 full time jobs (placement was full time plus my paid work evenings/weekends), caring for the kids (2 of whom are SEN) & University work. The amount of pressure was unreal.

So, yes, women can LTB. But I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy if you don't have support, savings or a well paid job. It was the worst time of my life without a doubt. BUT, 5 years on & I'm reaping the rewards. My kids are also very independent, fully house trained & have a great work ethic.

I must admit I have thought about LTB this year, mostly because he doesn’t help much with parenting.

But I have also realise that while he doesn’t help a lot, he does help. And some help is better than none.

So I just seethe silently

A few people on this thread are assuming my ex would be reasonable and supportive in the event of a breakup. I'm not saying he wouldn't be but you really cant tell until it happens. Its easy to be say you'll help out when everyone is in love and getting on. But break ups can really change people.

I've seen it afew times. Women literally left holding the baby while the once loving partner completely fucks off. And the courts are no good at chasing maintenance.

I might get help from UC to pay for childcare but I start work at 7 so would still need someone to drop them off. And there is nobody.

I could leave if I had to but it would be very tough.

I might get slammed for this but it's situations like this as to why it's worth thinking very long and hard about having more than 2 children. More than 2 children makes life much harder when things like illness, death or more likely, break ups, happen. I'm not saying live life like the worst can happen, but when weighing everything up knowing it might not always be DH and me or no longer having external family etc for whatever reason that helped me make peace with stopping after 2. Appreciate accidents happen.

You are right op, when I broke up with my ex he disappeared, no help, no overnights, no maintenance nothing. He might as well not exist. Easy to sit there and tell others to ltb, easier said than done.

I think people think they can't afford to because they dont apportion the DHs share correctly.

I work 4 days per week. DH works 5. I would expect him to do 5050 as he actually cares about seeing his child and that means funding half of the childcare.

I would expect him to buy me out of the house.

If OH didnt pay half of choldcare he would need to take me to court for access and i would dig in on 5050 to include weekday care.

Any man not prepared to do or pay 5050 of childcare would need court ordered access from me.

You might expect it anon, it doesn’t mean that would happen.

I would just say that i am one of the LTB tribe but i do recognise that i say that from a position of privilege and i recognise that i am fortunate that if DH disappeared i could carry on working and paying mortgage/childcare/bills on my salary. The only change to my life would be having another adult around to share the load/household chores and bills.

That doesn't mean LTB is bad advice or impossible though.

@Sheeeeeep it would. When his ex dumped him they had just taken on a 6 month tenancy and he paid his half for the whole period despite being dumped and not living there.

He insisted we do 5050 joint tenancy depite paying a larger house deposit.

Hes a good egg. He would take me to court if i tried to give him less that 5050 without good reason (such as it requiring DS to move school)

You are completely right. It is a very difficult choice financially and practically.

I LTB 9 years ago and struggled massively to start with. I couldn't afford the nursery so all bills went in credit cards. I worked full time so I accessed some childcare credits (at the time). And as all my family are abroad I had no practical support. But I did leave because I was unhappy (he was cheating).

Roll on 9 years and my life is great. I worked on my education and career and went from earning 21k to 75k. Kids are happy, well adjusted and have a relationship with their dad. I have been in a happy relationship for the last 5 years and a new baby.

The single most important decision I made was to ensure my financial independence and work hard at progressing it. Now I can LT (non) B anytime.

It makes me sad how many women are stuck in unhappy marriages and relationships for financial reasons. But I also get really angry when people say it is easy for some. It wasn't easy but it was absolutely worth it.

I guess you would have to try to change your job/hours to fit around childcare opening hours but you should get help with childcare fees and if your income is low a top up via UC. Presumably your OH would pay maintenance too. A few years back I was able to manage on part time hours in a small rental property with the help of tax credits. I didn’t get any maintenance from XH but was even able to get a mortgage (as I had a good deposit and excellent credit score).

You probably wouldn’t want to LTB then anon! But that’s what I mean - there’s a difference between him doing that because he’s a good guy and doing it because he has to.