Affairs

[xXOXOx]

See so many people on here having affairs with men that they know are married and in long term relationships with children etc. It makes me so sad! My DF had affairs when I was younger and it really affected me growing up and I actually think it still does. I can't quite understand how people can do this to other females or their partners and not think about the poor women and children they are affecting would they like it done to them? NOPE. I think it's utterly selfish and so disrespectful, not only to themselves but everyone else involved!

Are you really angry about your mum staying with him?

Have you had therapy if it’s still affecting you this much?

[quote xXOXOx]@TwoAndAnOnion Well because I ended up with another half sibling so there was no hiding it. [/quote]
Difficult one, but your mother chose to remain in the relationship. Only they know their relationship dynamic. Some people really are ambivalent about fidelity, for others it's a deal breaker.

Is it the affair that is upsetting you or the arrival of a half sibling?

@AnneLovesGilbert I was too young at the time to properly know what was going on but I realised as I got older how much it affected me and I got therapy. I'm not angry at my mum for staying with him, I can't imagine my mum and dad not being together, my mum has only ever been with my dad but I have definitely have never fully forgiven him.

It doesn't extremely affect me but I just saw a few posts over the past few days of woman saying they were knowingly going with men they knew were in a relationship and it annoyed me. Yes the men are the ones commited and are worse but have some morals and self respect and find someone single!

I rarely see it on MN. I don’t think this is particularly a MN “thing” is it??

I agree. If anything, it's the opposite. Affairs are extremely denounced on this site (rightly so).

@TwoAndAnOnion It was over 20 years ago this happened, it's just seeing posts of females on here over the past few days openly saying they are having an affair and the man is married with children and it's annoyed me. Yes the man is completely out of order and it's his fault but I think if you know this then it doesn't exactly make you a nice person either.

@moynomore I think I worded my OP wrong but I saw maybe 2 or 3 in a few days and found myself posting about it.

Fair enough. I'm sorry for what you went through.

@moynomore Thank you

I think it's widely accepted. Our PM is a good example. Carrie knew he was married... nevertheless, he is popular and have a good approval rating.

Blossomtoes- LOL

[quote xXOXOx]@AnneLovesGilbert I was too young at the time to properly know what was going on but I realised as I got older how much it affected me and I got therapy. I'm not angry at my mum for staying with him, I can't imagine my mum and dad not being together, my mum has only ever been with my dad but I have definitely have never fully forgiven him.

It doesn't extremely affect me but I just saw a few posts over the past few days of woman saying they were knowingly going with men they knew were in a relationship and it annoyed me. Yes the men are the ones commited and are worse but have some morals and self respect and find someone single!

[/quote]
You say the men are worse but your ire is directed at the women.

Also, I dispute this idea that having an affair with a married man must be a sign of low self respect. It can be, of course - any relationship can be - but I really haven't seen anything to suggest that it's more the case in women who have affairs. Putting up with your arsehole husband doing it smacks far more of low self respect to me. And why is it only women who must hate themselves if they have illicit sex? Why are men immune?

I'm sorry you have to deal with a philandering father, OP, but sexist attitudes about affairs are one massive reason why he and other men are able to do it so easily.

I agree with you OP to the extent I feel both parties are at fault. While everyone is free to do as they choose, it is incredibly selfish in my view to engage in an affair. It takes 2 to tango, therefore both have an equal responsibility in the pain they cause. While you may choose to see the woman as the ''temptress'' your father acted of his own free will.. If you aren't happy in the commitment you made, leave. Then do as you please.

Personally, I wouldn't touch a married man with a barge pole - I could not be complicit in causing pain for someone else even if I don't know them and them owe nothing. It's important to me to be able to look at myself in the mirror and live with my own actions. That said, these are my values and I recognize others may feel or see things differently. I've seen affairs both destroy marriages and be overcome with little (if any) fuss - even where children were the product.

@DrSbaitso My post was directed at the woman in this because it was women I saw posting on MN that they knew, that doesn't mean I don't think men are worse, if anything my father doing that has taught me that I would never put up with that behaviour in the future if it ever happens (I hope it doesn't) men aren't immune, this is not what I was saying. I'm not having a sexist attitude about it, neither parties should be doing it full stop, maybe if both parties didn't engage in doing so then it wouldn't happen so often. The committed person is worse but that doesn't mean both aren't in the wrong.

I think that @Pinkyxx explains what I mean perfectly.

It takes 2 to tango, therefore both have an equal responsibility in the pain they cause.

It's only one person's commitment and only that person has the power to cause any pain by breaking it.

As I said before, fidelity is worthless if the only reason your husband is faithful is because every woman he propositions says no.

I wouldn't sleep with a married man, but I absolutely reject, in every possible way, the idea that I am in any way responsible for some guy's commitment and promises. I actually find it quite offensive as a concept, even though it's not something I've ever done.

This thread and the posts on it, though, are perfect examples of how ingrained sexist attitudes are. I'm quite sure that people really believe they are not being sexist, even when they are. It really doesn't matter that "the women" are the ones on here, you're still directing the moral imperatives and insults of low self respect at them and holding them equally responsible for a man's own sexual incontinence and broken personal commitment. Making it half her fault.

He's the only one who can break his own commitment. She could be anyone.

At any rate, hold the OW to be "in the wrong" if you like, but ultimately if you do decide to try to rebuild your marriage, she won't be part of that process so you're going to have to accept her irrelevance at some point.

Diluting a man's responsibility is a very good way of making it easier and more likely for him to cheat.

Something I've noticed, which seems to be holding true on here (bearing in mind that no men have commented, afaik)...men seem to expect other men to want to sleep with their wives and, however else they may feel, are not surprised by it. Women, though, often seem to expect other women not to want to sleep with their husbands, even automatically to stop finding a man attractive once they know he is committed. And they do often seem to be surprised and puzzled as to why a woman would have a relationship with a married man.

We are never puzzled as to why men have affairs. We may think he's a total shit, but we aren't at a loss to explain why he did it. Yet with women, suddenly it's a huge mystery. It must be that she has no self respect...

There is so, so much sexism surrounding it. We have all been raised on it, we can't even see it. Like fish don't have a word for water. But my God, it's there. And it primes the world for male infidelity.

@DrSbaitso Em no actually, regardless of sex either parties are in the wrong, don't try and throw sexist at me. Perfect example, my DP best friend recently had an affair with a married woman with kids, I think he's bad because he knew and there's kids involved and they have now both split up a family. Regardless if it's male or female, if you cheat or knowingly engage in an affair knowing the person is married then you are not a nice person because you know people are going to get hurt. If you aren't happy with someone, end it. I haven't been around his friend since because I think anyone that can do that has no morals and I can't stand people like that, again because of my own experiences. I'm not just talking about if it's men cheating, can be woman too.

@xXOXOx

*@DrSbaitso* Em no actually, regardless of sex either parties are in the wrong, don't try and throw sexist at me. Perfect example, my DP best friend recently had an affair with a married woman with kids, I think he's bad because he knew and there's kids involved and they have now both split up a family. Regardless if it's male or female, if you cheat or knowingly engage in an affair knowing the person is married then you are not a nice person because you know people are going to get hurt. If you aren't happy with someone, end it. I haven't been around his friend since because I think anyone that can do that has no morals and I can't stand people like that, again because of my own experiences. I'm not just talking about if it's men cheating, can be woman too.

I'm not throwing anything at you. I'm inviting you to study what you've been raised to believe, because you among others on here are doing the classic "of course the man is responsible BUT THE WOMAN!"

I know it's not nice to have sexism in your thought processes highlighted, but you have been socialised in this like everyone else. It's very common, even on a site full of women. But you're a thinking person, so rethink.

You've asked us on here how people can do this sort of thing. Well, one huge reason for many men is because when they shit all over their own personal commitments, there remains a strong feeling that they aren't really fully responsible. Oh, everyone claims they are, but when the woman is "just as bad" or "still in the wrong" or "two to tango" (only one to commit!), that's not what's being communicated. And she can't have any sensible reason either, she must have no self respect. And of course there's a reason for directing the moral imperatives etc at the women. There always is.

I'm not suggesting that you or others don't hold men responsible at all, but your language and thought processes do betray the sexist environment that affects us all. And make it easier and more acceptable for them to cheat.

Again, both parties are equally complicit in the choice to engage in infidelity and equally responsible for the consequences of their choices. I call complete BS on the notion that only the person who is committed is in the wrong. It's ok to betray, cheat and deceive as long as you weren't committed to the person wronged? Give me a break.

This isn't about sexism, it's about basic morals and values. To imply that either party could be faultless in the context of infidelity betrays a tragic sense of entitlement, a belief one can behave as one wishes regardless of how those choices might impact another. What a sad world we live in if truly people are so blind, so impervious to the impact they have on others. I would never knowingly act in a way that hurts someone else - and it ought to be obvious to any adult that having an affair with a married person is liable to cause pain.

@Ginger1982

You will get loads of folk saying it's not the OW's problem, the man is the one breaking his vows etc, etc which is true, but I personally think that anyone who is the OW and doesn't give a shit about the wife and kids and thinks she has no responsibility is morally shitty herself.

This.

This isn't about sexism, it's about basic morals and values.

I agree with this too. Anyone of either sex should regard a person who is married or in a relationship as off limits.

I think @DrSbaitso makes a really good point around the perceptions we’re conditioned towards. They are sexist.

It cannot possibly be true that a woman who does not even know the wife is as equally culpable as the man who promised to live an cherish his partner. That’s not to say the OW behaviour is t morally reprehensible but it’s not in the same league as the man who has committed a betrayal.

Again,bothparties are equally complicit in the choice to engage in infidelity

Again, only one of them ever made the choice to commit to someone else and only one of them is responsible for their commitment. The other person cannot possibly be equally to blame for a promise they didn't make. The world is not the safeguard of your husband's fidelity. He is.

If you found out your husband had been propositioning women and the only reason he hadn't actually shagged any was because they had all said no, would you feel OK about it? Safe in his commitment?

@PegasusReturns

I think *@DrSbaitso* makes a really good point around the perceptions we’re conditioned towards. They are sexist.

It cannot possibly be true that a woman who does not even know the wife is as equally culpable as the man who promised to live an cherish his partner. That’s not to say the OW behaviour is t morally reprehensible but it’s not in the same league as the man who has committed a betrayal.

Agree. It's wrong to sleep with a married person, of course it is. But I really can't accept this idea that it's "equally bad" as the person who actually made a promise, built a life and goes back to it every day. And while this thread is a bit more circumspect than some other discussions, I rarely see men who sleep with married women being held "equally responsible" like this. I certainly never see them being accused of having no self respect. Au contraire, it's often seen as a sign of how highly they rate themselves.

When a man plays away, on here and elsewhere, the betrayed wife often says something like, "He's a shit, but (always the but!) how could SHE?" All the time. When questioned, she'll often say that she can't help being less harsh on him, he's the one she knows and loves. Which makes sense, but how strange that the flip side of that coin - that, since he's the one with the bond and commitment, he's the one who has committed the far greater sin - so often doesn't seem to apply.

It happened to me and the pain myself and the children have gone through has been horrendous. Personally I couldn’t do that to someone else. The OW was messaging my husband saying ‘you look hot’ ‘wish you weren’t married’ whilst on zoom calls. I think that’s absolutely disgusting but obviously my ex is even more disgusting getting involved. It’s incredibly selfish and really not the right way to behave. I have 3 children all affected in different ways. If you’re unhappy in a relationship just do the right thing leave then find someone else. But that takes guts and integrity and most people can’t be bothered with that.

Some people have affairs and ultimately end the marriage and start a life together.

The only difference in your personal case is that your father didnt and your mum took him back. The final choices are the only dofference to the outcome.