To think that if the hospitality industry is struggling to fill vacancies...

[Susie477]

It should pay higher wages?

The hospitality industry is facing a ‘jobs crisis’, we are told. Restaurants are complaining that they can’t recruit the workers they need to re-open after lockdown. Many of the foreign workers they previously relied on have gone home after Brexit & covid, and they are struggling to recruit British workers to do minimum wage jobs with unsocial working hours.

So why not offer to pay more? Businesses accept that they have to pay competitively to recruit senior executives and justify high salaries by citing ‘market forces’. Why doesn’t the same apply to ordinary workers?

One of the alleged benefits of Brexit was supposed to be that the U.K. economy would be forced to break its addiction to an unlimited supply of cheap immigrant labour. So why isn’t it happening? Why aren’t wages rising?

Can't speak for every venue but in my experience, yes, people are willing to pay more.

When I had my first part time job at 17 it was 4 hours on a Sunday morning on a supermarket deli counter (I just served customers as was just a student and wasn't trained on using/cleaning the slicer etc). I earned £25 for 4 hours. The shop was only open until lunchtime as it was a Sunday and Sunday morning was premium rates.

That was 35 years ago!!! A 17 year old today working 4 hours on a Sunday would earn less today £18.48 and it would cost them much more than 35 years ago in bus fares to get there. It is ridiculous.

@BritWifeinUSA

It’s the same here in the US and we haven’t got Brexit to blame. It’s the insecurity. No one wants a job in the industry that’s going to be one of the first to be shut down and one of the last to reopen again.

Thanks for that perspective, @BritWifeinUSA - I'm afraid I'm one of those whose knee-jerk reaction is: "Brexit, drain of workers to the 27 European countries which will accept them and not treat them like dirt", so that has given me food for thought (sorry).

@Wtfdidwedo I'm sorry you had such a shit experience in hospitality, but your bad experience doesn't mean the entire industry is like that. We treat our staff how we would expect to be treated ourselves. If staff need time off for personal or family reasons it isn't questioned. No one goes without toilet or drink breaks. Food is provided on shift. Bonuses are paid quarterly as we believe profit share is an important part of our culture. If a member of staff is performing at a level above their grade we increase their salary to reflect that. We value our staff. Consequently we don't see the same staff turnover rates as the majority of hospitality businesses. It makes good ethical and good business sense.

@Susie477 why aren't wages rising? Very simple, hospitality is dealing with huge debts accrued over lockdown. Trading is a simple economic equation. If there is no margin there is no business. Those businesses with income from other sources, or a big corporate backer providing a financial buffer probably are increasing wages. The others, just can't.

What has lock down cost you personally? Have you had to take out a loan similar to the size of the mortgage on a nice house? No? Well many restaurants, hotels, pubs and the like have, and the interest rates are huge. All that talk of zero interest covid loans. They were impossible to get. If you looked like you would survive the pandemic then you were deemed to be a good financial risk and all they'd offer was a business loan at 6%. If you looked like you'd fail, then you were too big a risk and they'd not lend. Catch 22.

Good luck to any hospitality businesses on this thread, fingers crossed for a good year, and don't let the bastards get you down.

It would be great if people stopped seeing those who work in hospitality as "unskilled" and "uneducated." Where I work everyone has a degree!

You should see how take away workers get treated. I thought my experience with customers in restaurants and some fast food was shit. The way take away workers are talked to, like if they are dirt on the floor and too stupid to do even simple tasks, is frankly disgusting. That's also why people demand cheap prices. Because it's made by "stupid people". Disgusting attitudes.

But that was exceptionally well paid for the time wings. I worked in Greggs at about the same time and earned about £2-3 an hour - I can't remember exactly how much, but what I can remember is that when I started full time work in 1992 my full time wage was £6500 pa. 4 hours pay was about £13.

Yes, in theory, wages should be higher and, even more importantly, job security should be better (zero hour contracts, etc). A lot of unskilled workers have been treated terribly in terms of lack of security, poor wage and have generally been taken advantage of.

However, I suspect that many hospitality related businesses are already in massive debt and many are on slim margins anyway. Prices should go up and it remains to be seen whether customers will be happy to pay them. I suspect a lot of these businesses won't survive even in the relatively short term.

I had a retail job & 15-20 yrs ago was earning not far off what they pay now, it's bonkers! Even well paid jobs & careers have seen wage stagnation. A job with a 70k salary 10+ yrs ago still tends to pay that.

Friends in the US are seeing the same post-Covid there, so definitely not just Brexit to blame,

@OrchestraOfWankery

It's not the USA. It's Austria.
And yes, it is irrelevant whether people have a family or single.
The employment office tries to place people in their local area but after a certain number of months with no success they can be placed anywhere.
I've been on the website - here is a link www.ams.at/arbeitsuchende/arbeitslos-was-tun/wichtige-informationen-zu-ams-leistungen
However, under "Zumutbare Wegzeit" the old regulations of up to 2 hours are still quoted. The new rules about being placed anywhere were announced just a couple of weeks ago to deal with the lack of staff in hospitality. It means that someone in Burgenland could be placed in one of the tourist hotspots in Tyrol for example.

If you turn down more than a couple of jobs without good reason your money is stopped. My ex fell foul of this several years ago as he'd turned down several jobs (he was actually a lazy, cocklodger but that's another story). They then found him a job in a kitchen in a mountain hut (where he'd have to stay 6 days a week with one day off to return home) which he refused and his benefits were stopped immediately. This meant he was also no longer health insured.
You have to be contributing here or you are not covered... as long as you are on unemployment benefit your health insurance is covered, if you lose that benefit you are not.
It's pretty harsh and they are very exact about it all.

woskxm293847 you sound like an awesome boss. Can I come and work for you please?

Good point @SchrodingersImmigrant I worked in a high end shop so generally had nice customers but some saw you as slaves. I don't get where there attitude comes from or why some think it's ok.

SchrodingersImmigrant that is so shit. I'm sorry you got treated that way. What the fuck is wrong with people?

@WeAllHaveWings

When I had my first part time job at 17 it was 4 hours on a Sunday morning on a supermarket deli counter (I just served customers as was just a student and wasn't trained on using/cleaning the slicer etc). I earned £25 for 4 hours. The shop was only open until lunchtime as it was a Sunday and Sunday morning was premium rates.

That was 35 years ago!!! A 17 year old today working 4 hours on a Sunday would earn less today £18.48 and it would cost them much more than 35 years ago in bus fares to get there. It is ridiculous.

^ this

I had a Saturday job in M&S. I left in 1989 when I finished my A Levels. I was earning £4.20 per hour. They were really decent employers then. I got holiday pay, sick pay, set hours, discount vouchers, access to the yellow stickered food, very cheap subsidised restaurant, chiropodist, hairdresser.....

32 years later, minimum wage is £6.56. A whole £2.36 per hour more.

It's about time people started getting fair wages and conditions. I know plenty of people at the top of the tree who have no trouble in negotiating massive pay rises when they change jobs yet want to pay the absolute minimum to their staff. Work has got a lot harder in the last fifteen years in terms of workloads/expectations.

The massive rise in cheap labour from Europe has not helped us. Lots of people willing to work for low pay and poor conditions has driven down standards. I really hope that the tide will turn. Lots of employers need to learn some hard lessons.

@OrchestraOfWankery
Just to add to that. I just read the last point of the "Zumutbare Wegzeit"
If an employ makes suitable accommodation available, the journey times are no longer valid. In this case, it is reasonable if you cannot travel home every day.
So yes, they can send people anywhere.
There is an exception for people who have a child under 10 but I'm not sure if that's just one of the parents or both.

@Ridiculousradish

SchrodingersImmigrant that is so shit. I'm sorry you got treated that way. What the fuck is wrong with people?

I don't anymore. I made sure to move myself away from direct customer facing role because the attitudes are getting worse. Now I just see the behaviour and it's not directed at me usually. It's actually horroble to watch.

@ncgy 5* hotel bar was one of the most ridiculous places in this. People were either lovely or they... Clicked fingers to call us... 🤦 Very little inbetween.

Also re the zero hour contracts pps mentioned. I wouldn't ban them. Just regulate it better somehow. They can work really well for people and did for me too. But the boss can't be a dickhead

My employees and I might all have degrees, but that sure as hell didn't give us the skills to work in hospitality. Degree or not, you've got to have the right skills. Yeah OK it might not be brain surgery, but it is still skilled. Personally I'm skilled in not punching customers on a daily basis
I dunno what the fuck I'm doing in hospitality anymore. The mask wearing, the Covid regs, the dickhead customers, it's taken the joy away. My boss has been good to me throughout lockdown though, so I want to stay for a bit. Don't want to let them down.

@woskxm293847
I was a manager. I tried to treat my staff well by trying not to put the pressure on them that was put on us by Head Office (small equipment budgets, short staffing etc) and ended up taking it on myself. If I'd told my senior manager I needed time off for an appointment they'd have asked me who would open the restaurant. If I told them I had a wedding to attend they'd have told me it was Christmas so it's not possible.

I loved the people I met there but the very nature of hospitality is that it's busy at weekends and over the holidays, so there's only so much you can improve conditions; I think furlough has made a lot of people realise they'd rather spend time with their family and friends and work in better regulated industries.

When I was a kid, eating out was so expensive that it only happened like twice a year. It’s only this century that it’s become affordable to eat out every week, partially because staff aren’t paid properly. Perhaps people’s expectations are unrealistic and eating out needs to go back to a twice-a-year sort of price.

So only high-end restaurants to remain? No cafes, no diners, no delis, no pubs, no fast food?

So only high-end restaurants to remain? No cafes, no diners, no delis, no pubs, no fast food?

Well pubs are dying aren't they & this was pre covid. Where I am the old school delis died long time ago replaced by very expensive delis.

I worked as a receptionist in a well known, posh hotel in a popular tourist destination. I lasted only two months and would never again work in hospitality:
minimum wage,
often no breaks on a 9 hour shift,
frequent 11pm finishes followed by 7am starts, bullying management who also favoured certain staff,
treated like shit by said management and also by guests.

All that glitters is not gold.

hotel bar was one of the most ridiculous places in this. People were either lovely or they... Clicked fingers to call us... 🤦 Very little inbetween.

Cringe

But where does it stop, increase NMW and every other wage has to increase by the same amount, that also means employer NI and Pension contributions increase for everyone you employ.

This also means public sector workers need an increased payrise so that means we all need to pay higher taxes which in turn means we have less disposal income as the tax rise would need to be higher than the income rise.
Capitalism is based on low cost workers, whilst it is fine not to like this the alternatives have proved to be even less appealing.

Of course not, but the current situation raises questions about whether it should be the norm to eat out regularly as cheap as possible when our fellow citizens are paying the cost for us to have a cheap pizza.

It really doesn't.

The current situation is that people have moved away from hospitality to find other work until security returns in that industry.

There are myriad minimum wage jobs, if we raise hospitality wages, we should be raising wages in those too. That is how you ensure everyone can enjoy their leisure time and boost the economy, not just closing off one sector to all but the well off.

So only high-end restaurants to remain? No cafes, no diners, no delis, no pubs, no fast food?
I’m not talking about high end restaurants. Even a pub meal was a twice-yearly sort of event. Cafes or fast food were maybe once a month. High end restaurants were only for the rich.