To think that if the hospitality industry is struggling to fill vacancies...

[Susie477]

It should pay higher wages?

The hospitality industry is facing a ‘jobs crisis’, we are told. Restaurants are complaining that they can’t recruit the workers they need to re-open after lockdown. Many of the foreign workers they previously relied on have gone home after Brexit & covid, and they are struggling to recruit British workers to do minimum wage jobs with unsocial working hours.

So why not offer to pay more? Businesses accept that they have to pay competitively to recruit senior executives and justify high salaries by citing ‘market forces’. Why doesn’t the same apply to ordinary workers?

One of the alleged benefits of Brexit was supposed to be that the U.K. economy would be forced to break its addiction to an unlimited supply of cheap immigrant labour. So why isn’t it happening? Why aren’t wages rising?

Same problem in the US. Pay is too low to compete with viable businesses recruiting with bonuses and higher per hour wages. Plus here all of the child day cares closed and haven't reopened. Summer is coming and all school will be closed. Lots of whining about inability to hire. Prices will have to increase in order to pay livable wages. Also, previous guy shut down all immigrants and they worked many of the low wage jobs. Cut your nose off to spite your face.

but regularly seeing here mentions of 3, 4, 5 kids.
I think they stand out more. There are lots of young families in this area, I'd say 1 in 10 or less have a big family, most people have one or two, some have none.
Then there is the generation gap having a first baby 15 later than previous generations.

What it all adds up to (reduced number of young adults, reduced numbers of young people coming in from other countries, border closures) is that their is a smaller available workforce for the hospitality employers to fish in. They are going to need to put wages and Ts&Cs up to attract staff.

There is already a reduced casual dining market as the same age group who make up the hospitality workforce are also significant in the hospitality market. So smaller numbers of workers and smaller numbers of customers.

Business failures are inevitable. I dont think we are going to go back to the eating out landscape of my 70s childhood (chicken in a basket in a pub garden being the height of casual dining) but I do predict a lot of resetting.

sorry, there is not their is

I've just seen supervisor position advertised for £9 an hour by a group which owns number of successful outlets around city. Now, that's a pisstake.

@EmeraldShamrock

but regularly seeing here mentions of 3, 4, 5 kids. I think they stand out more. There are lots of young families in this area, I'd say 1 in 10 or less have a big family, most people have one or two, some have none. Then there is the generation gap having a first baby 15 later than previous generations.

Yeah, it's possible. I always wanted to ask about this, start a thread and see how it is on mn, but I knew I would get misread and slaughteted😂

@EmeraldShamrock

I thought care homes were staffed by British, Africans and Philippinos, the latter, in my experience, being very good at at. If so Brexit won't affect the industry.

Profit margins are so narrow that prices would have to rise to accommodate a pay rise. That would almost certainly have an impact on customer numbers. Some people would be willing to pay more, some wouldn't. Many of those who are willing to pay more would frequent the cafes and restaurants less often, as people don't have endless amounts of disposable income. So a lot of places would probably be forced out of business.

It's tricky, because I think people should be paid a decent wage, but personally, I couldn't justify eating out often if the prices were to increase significantly. I'd still go, but just not as much. If a lot of people did the same, the industry just wouldn't be sustainable.

I don't think it's wven a significant incteas in many cases, which is needed.
But I had customers throwing hissy fits over 50p increase on main meal, when wages and also ingredients and other stuff increased so we increased to cover that once a year.

[quote amispeakingenglish]@EmeraldShamrock

I thought care homes were staffed by British, Africans and Philippinos, the latter, in my experience, being very good at at. If so Brexit won't affect the industry.[/quote]
Many people have entered the UK (and perfectly legally, I might add) through becoming EU citizens - that bit about applying in the first safe country that's often used as an argument about people applying here and not in Italy/Spain meaning they aren't actually genuine.

It might not be the largest proportion of the workforce, but finding over 113,000 extra employees isn't that simple. Especially as care workers aren't eligible for immigration entry on the points system due to the low pay and that it's regarded as unskilled, which also counts out 'Phillipinos' who aren't qualified nurses as well - leaving an additional 134,000 vacancies to fill.

And, of course, as the staff tend to be women, many of those already doing it will very reasonably be stopping work to have children at some point.

@paralysedbyinertia but the industry was already not sustainable before covid at its then size. Many chains were already failing.

Covid/Brexit/Population all these changes are impacting the size of the market now.

When many of the chains started they were new and a bit different (I date from the chicken in a basket days so pizzas were different) but they have become mediocre and a bit samey. Too many places offering pretty much the same thing.

So, what is going to be the 'next big thing'? We have had pizza places, burger places, coffee places. I quite fancy a Salon de The.

[quote GnomeDePlume]@paralysedbyinertia but the industry was already not sustainable before covid at its then size. Many chains were already failing.

Covid/Brexit/Population all these changes are impacting the size of the market now.

When many of the chains started they were new and a bit different (I date from the chicken in a basket days so pizzas were different) but they have become mediocre and a bit samey. Too many places offering pretty much the same thing.

So, what is going to be the 'next big thing'? We have had pizza places, burger places, coffee places. I quite fancy a Salon de The.[/quote]
Absolutely, the industry was already very precarious even prior to covid. Hence their reliance on cheap labour. Putting up the wages would just push more businesses over the edge.

I don't know what the answer is. If affordable labour is no longer available, then the businesses can't run. If wages are pushed up, many won't survive. Maybe we just need to accept that many of these businesses are not viable, but if there will be consequences if they are left to fold - more unemployment, more empty shops in high streets etc.

If they cant afford higher wages to attract staff then the businesses will fail through lack of staff and poor service. It is not an enviable position, damned if they do and damned if they dont.

The problem for the chains is not being able to change quickly. The market has changed and some independents have been able to change their offering. A local pub restaurant switched over takeaway but based on good pub restaurant quality food. The reviews were excellent.

A lot of it is the qualified experienced staff have gone
Two of our staff - French and Italian, have gone back to their homes. We pay good wages and are prettty fully booked for weeks to come but it’s still difficult. We can’t offer full time because we are small and the uncertainty around the business makes it tricky but staff available don’t have enough knowledge /experience
We’re managing by opening fewer hours and covering a lot ourselves

Yes the empty restaurants on the high street etc is a shame. Maybe they can be turned into boutique gyms or something, which seem to be able to attach customers with money to burn. But I'm not convinced by the unemployment argument. Hospitality businesses will be closing because they can't recruit staff, or pay the market rate. That implies what their potential staff are employed elsewhere, if unemployment was high there wouldn't be this problem as cheap staff would be plentiful. It's an argument used by the bosses of large chains who know their days are numbered. They'll lobby government, proclaiming it's to save jobs, but that's not what they care about. The nimble small business which can adapt and where the owners also graft too may stick around, as they often provide a much better product and value for money for the customer. But the business model of lumbering chains providing poor quality food and paying dirt poor wages, with investers creaming off the vanishing profits, are doomed, and they know it.

We also have a massive shortage of HGV drivers, and they get paid well. But it is anti social hours and lonely.

But food, goods etc need HGV drivers. So many industries are screwed. We have been reliant on immigrant labour forever for a reason.

@btwwhichonespink

Surely this is the realm of students? Once they are back at university and out of lockdown they will be desperate for these hospitality jobs. I think one of the downsides of EU immigration has been the loss of student and Saturday jobs.

Students have never not been able to get jobs. Also remember that many of the EU workers were also students, and now they’ve gone, taking their £50k+ each contribution to the UK economy.

Surely this is the realm of students? Once they are back at university and out of lockdown they will be desperate for these hospitality jobs. I think one of the downsides of EU immigration has been the loss of student and Saturday jobs

mmm this is why no one wants to work in hospitality, there is no career structure or permanency.
Pre CV we go back to the same places in France and Spain, the same staff are there, they get decent money and training, its worth sticking at, one guy worked his way up, became head waiter, now runs his own place in Italy.

Students perhaps find it harder to work because shops have shut and far more young people have gone into FE and HE, we don't get much EU migration in Plymouth, still hard for young people to get work, so don't think EU migration has anything to do with it.

Pre CV we go back to the same places in France and Spain, the same staff are there, they get decent money and training, its worth sticking at
But this could be better than the U.K. partly due to short summer season here.
Here in Scotland stuff opens May to Oct.

@TheoMeo

Pre CV we go back to the same places in France and Spain, the same staff are there, they get decent money and training, its worth sticking at But this could be better than the U.K. partly due to short summer season here. Here in Scotland stuff opens May to Oct.

I think the status of bar/restaurant work is higher than here and ZHC aren't allowed in Europe, so the work is more regular.

Time an time again we just say "but what about the students? they can do this..."

I left hospitality in the summer, a job I'd personally invested in and spent money on educating myself in, because of the way I was treated.
I didn't like the damned rules around covid any more than anyone else, but I was made to feel like I was some kind of authoritarian arsehole for asking people to follow them so we could be open and stay open. And because of attitudes like ones on the running thread about being ID'd.

I'm done being the public's whipping boy, and not even getting enough to live on in return.

Time an time again we just say "but what about the students? they can do this..."

Yes and then complain about poor service because you've got no one who has experience and knowledge.

@Caplin there are a few problems with supply of HGV drivers:

• employers dont pay for training so there is no home grown steady supply of new drivers
• many of the older drivers are ex armed forces, either already trained or paid for HGV courses with their resettlement grant. There was a big influx from armed forces redundancies several years ago. These drivers are now retiring.
• Brexit

IMO it is the first two which are the biggest problems. Companies dont pay for training because drivers move on once they are trained but if the whole industry was forced to pay for training this would be less of a problem.