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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think that child maintenance is actually very unfair to the RP?

592 replies

ECJW · 21/05/2021 19:16

Just a thought I had due to speaking to my ex about costs for our DD and it hit me, NRP only have to give up a certain % of their incomes a week even though they don’t have to think about or incur any of the day to day costs of having children...

AIBU to think that it’s unfair that RP gets the brunt of paying for most of these things?

It occurred to me that even if ex paid £180 a month that it would only be covering DD’s packed lunches and a couple of extra bits and that’s it... that’s without normal groceries for her, drinks, clothes she might need, shoes she might need, school costs, activities and everything else...

Just out of curiosity, what do you think is an appropriate amount of child maintenance for one child when NRP has no other children to support?

OP posts:
AerisAsh · 23/05/2021 12:42

@Aalvarino

The CMS have got the powers to take the enforcement action.

My ex owes my little boy thousands, it has taken 6 years but they have finally gone to court and are going to send bayliffs to his new address. Apparently if he sets up a new payment plan and doesn't pay he will lose his licence and passport and there will be a warrant out for his arrest.

I think it doesn't happen often enough because it takes so long before the CMS take action and they give the NRP too many chances.

Kotatsu · 23/05/2021 12:46

However, there are a lot of NRPs out there who would love 50/50 custody of their DC but who are denied due to a jealous RP wanting to be seen as the "main parent"

That's a delicate balance though isn't it? I can't imagine it's great for kids to spend their time split between two houses either.

I think it's all very well talking about the 'expenses' of bringing up the children, and it's generally not enough, but these children are also missing out on having a second parent there - the NRP in my opinion needs to pay more so that the RP can pick the slack from the NRP not being there to give attention. eg. make it so the RP can afford a cleaner, so that hour a day they might spend hoovering/doing the washing can be spent with the kids, who otherwise could be spending that time with their other parent while one does the housework.

DinoHat · 23/05/2021 12:50

make it so the RP can afford a cleaner, so that hour a day they might spend hoovering/doing the washing can be spent with the kids, who otherwise could be spending that time with their other parent while one does the housework.

Oh god I’ve heard it all now.

forinborin · 23/05/2021 13:28

@DinoHat

make it so the RP can afford a cleaner, so that hour a day they might spend hoovering/doing the washing can be spent with the kids, who otherwise could be spending that time with their other parent while one does the housework.

Oh god I’ve heard it all now.

The other end - where the "cost" of the children is reduced to a loaf of white bread and two frozen chicken breasts per week - is not also quite OK, is it? Not on this thread, I hasten to add - just a vivid memory from another discussion. I cannot for the life of me understand this faux outrage on child maintenance threads towards RPs who dare to send their children to extracurricular activities or buy them clothes from non-charity shops. As if first you need to ensure that you are living as miserable a life as possible, on the brink of starvation, and only then you get a moral right to ask the second parent for contribution.
Barbie222 · 23/05/2021 13:36

I'm wondering how you would approach her food and toiletries were you together but on a low income. If she needs certain types of emollient, presumably these can be made available on prescription. You would have to find a way around it. That's not to say he shouldn't pay, just that you might have to think about how you meet her needs on a budget.

Getyourarseofffthequattro · 23/05/2021 14:54

This is why it's so difficult to quantify. Because it doesn't cost everyone the same amount to bring a child up.

For instance, when dss lived with us, his mum paid us around 1/3 of the maintenance we paid her, for the same child.

Did it cost us less to bring him up? Nope, course it didn't but it is what it is.

DinoHat · 23/05/2021 15:01

The other end - where the "cost" of the children is reduced to a loaf of white bread and two frozen chicken breasts per week - is not also quite OK

No. Talking in extremes doesn’t help strengthen anyone’s argument though.

reallyreallyborednow · 23/05/2021 15:34

This is why it's so difficult to quantify. Because it doesn't cost everyone the same amount to bring a child up

Yep. Also parents may have different values- one may be happy paying for violin, ballet, swimming, football, and any other weekly activity, the other may prefer to go on expensive AI holidays twice a year.

If one parent gets a new partner who earns more their living costs may increase- buying luxury or branded food, expensive car, bigger house, designer clothes. Is the other parent supposed to foot 50% of that lifestyle for the child?

forinborin · 23/05/2021 15:44

@DinoHat

The other end - where the "cost" of the children is reduced to a loaf of white bread and two frozen chicken breasts per week - is not also quite OK

No. Talking in extremes doesn’t help strengthen anyone’s argument though.

But a cleaner isn't really extreme. It is not even an outrageous luxury for a single parent working full-time.
Getyourarseofffthequattro · 23/05/2021 15:47

Personally I think a cleaner for a single parent is extreme. We can't afford a cleaner on two incomes.

forinborin · 23/05/2021 15:49

@Getyourarseofffthequattro

Personally I think a cleaner for a single parent is extreme. We can't afford a cleaner on two incomes.
But presumably you have two pair of hands doing chores too? Or are you a single parent with two incomes?
reallyreallyborednow · 23/05/2021 15:52

Personally I think a cleaner for a single parent is extreme. We can't afford a cleaner on two incomes

This. A cleaner is a luxury, not a necessity.

Anyway, you can’t dictate what the RP spends cm on. Forcing someone to get a cleaner so they can spend quality time with their kids? They may feel they are better at managing their time than you think.

Getyourarseofffthequattro · 23/05/2021 15:56

But presumably you have two pair of hands doing chores too? Or are you a single parent with two incomes?

I do but I also have one extra persons mess, washing, washing up, etc etc.

A cleaner is a luxury.

DinoHat · 23/05/2021 15:59

@Getyourarseofffthequattro

Personally I think a cleaner for a single parent is extreme. We can't afford a cleaner on two incomes.
Me neither and DH works away all week, whilst I work and manage DC alone.
bp300 · 23/05/2021 16:00

@jamaisjedors

Something which I find grossly unfair here in France (not sure how it works in the uk) is that as RP i have to declare the maintenance from exh as income and am taxed on it...

He deducts it from his taxes...

Angry

That's actually not a bad system but obviously the gross maintenance figure would have to be higher to compensate.
forinborin · 23/05/2021 16:06

Out of interest, what else is a "luxury" then? Is there anything considered a reasonable expense outside of food and minimal shelter?

I have a cleaner as a single parent. No, it is not a luxury, sometimes it is a genuine lifesaver after a 60 hour working week, so that I can actually spend some time with the children on the weekend. I just don't have an extra 10 hours a week to spend on homework - not without neglecting the children badly.

Getyourarseofffthequattro · 23/05/2021 16:07

@forinborin

Out of interest, what else is a "luxury" then? Is there anything considered a reasonable expense outside of food and minimal shelter?

I have a cleaner as a single parent. No, it is not a luxury, sometimes it is a genuine lifesaver after a 60 hour working week, so that I can actually spend some time with the children on the weekend. I just don't have an extra 10 hours a week to spend on homework - not without neglecting the children badly.

Most people do not work 60 hour weeks. And it is still a luxury. That's your choice, and great that you can afford to make that choice, but it doesn't mean it's not a luxury.

Lots of things are luxuries. What a vague question.

DinoHat · 23/05/2021 16:08

@forinborin it’s all perspective isn’t it. A cleaner clearly isn’t a necessity for every household. You might consider it as such, but that doesn’t mean it is universally for everyone.

Just like I couldn’t imagine raising my young DC without a back garden, but plenty do.

forinborin · 23/05/2021 16:12

Lots of things are luxuries. What a vague question.
But surely there's a finite list of RP's child-related expenses that could be classified either as "luxury" or not.
OK - let me start. Music lessons? Birthday gifts for friends? Pets? Day trips? Own bedroom? A computer?
Not strictly necessary for survival. Luxuries or not?

DinoHat · 23/05/2021 16:14

@forinborin

Lots of things are luxuries. What a vague question. But surely there's a finite list of RP's child-related expenses that could be classified either as "luxury" or not. OK - let me start. Music lessons? Birthday gifts for friends? Pets? Day trips? Own bedroom? A computer? Not strictly necessary for survival. Luxuries or not?
How is this line of questioning helpful? Unless you are suggesting the alternative is the NRP pay for anything vaguely child related irrespective of the purpose it serves?
Idiotathome79 · 23/05/2021 16:16

My ex pays 240 a month for 3 children one with autism , and I struggle , I been left with debts in my name ( that are his including a. Contract phone which I can't afford to cancel)

I mentioned to him he would have to help
With school uniforms / bus passes etc and he scoffed that I get enough out of him already .

Getyourarseofffthequattro · 23/05/2021 16:16

@forinborin

Lots of things are luxuries. What a vague question. But surely there's a finite list of RP's child-related expenses that could be classified either as "luxury" or not. OK - let me start. Music lessons? Birthday gifts for friends? Pets? Day trips? Own bedroom? A computer? Not strictly necessary for survival. Luxuries or not?
It's different for everyone surely and based on income.

I don't count own bedroom as a luxury because we had enough anyway. If I lived in London I probably would count it as one.

Music lessons probably a luxury. If they were passionate about it we'd pay.

Birthday gifts for friends? Not a luxury imo but I never spend much and vice versa.

A computer? Probably not in this day and age but would expect child to have one paid for by both parents in an ideal world.

Pets? I don't know how to answer that. I suppose they are in a way? I wouldn't get one I couldn't afford.

motogogo · 23/05/2021 16:18

You are not wrong but it does vary, because eves situation is different I've met both rps and nrps who are struggling due to the system. Of course if only people thought carefully about the costs of children prior to having them and if their relationship fails come to an amicable arrangement it would be fair to both but pigs might fly!

The problem as I see it is a combination of people (mostly men) not wanting to take responsibility for the children they have and a maintenance system based on a set formula that allows those without paye income to avoid it and equally doesn't always take into account the rps full situation either.

We have a private agreement and hopefully no need for anything else

motogogo · 23/05/2021 16:20

@jamaisjedors

We don't actually, the one good thing is child maintenance isn't factored into benefits etc

motogogo · 23/05/2021 16:23

@FunMcCool

Many people only earn £1500 or so a month. That's why it can't be a set amount for all. I get £900 a month (20%) and that is a stretch for exh

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