Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think that child maintenance is actually very unfair to the RP?

592 replies

ECJW · 21/05/2021 19:16

Just a thought I had due to speaking to my ex about costs for our DD and it hit me, NRP only have to give up a certain % of their incomes a week even though they don’t have to think about or incur any of the day to day costs of having children...

AIBU to think that it’s unfair that RP gets the brunt of paying for most of these things?

It occurred to me that even if ex paid £180 a month that it would only be covering DD’s packed lunches and a couple of extra bits and that’s it... that’s without normal groceries for her, drinks, clothes she might need, shoes she might need, school costs, activities and everything else...

Just out of curiosity, what do you think is an appropriate amount of child maintenance for one child when NRP has no other children to support?

OP posts:
Getyourarseofffthequattro · 23/05/2021 18:00

[quote MyDcAreMarvel]**@ECJW* Just out of curiosity, what do you think is an appropriate amount of child maintenance for one child when NRP has no other children to support*
40% of net income. RP spend well over 50% of their income on their children.[/quote]
Could you run your home on 60% of your wage?

Jellybabiesforbreakfast · 23/05/2021 18:05

What about non-separated parents who can’t afford “decent”, do they get top ups from the govt too?

The children come first. Yes, single adults should be supported to some degree but there are sound social and economic reasons for prioritising support for children. Children are powerless to change their situation. Child poverty is more harmful than adult poverty. It also costs more.

Pound for pound, investing in children makes much more sense. So the children's financial welfare should be prioritised over that of the NRP.

Getyourarseofffthequattro · 23/05/2021 18:07

Yes having a parent who can't afford to have you stay over is really beneficial to a child isn't it?

Aalvarino · 23/05/2021 18:08

Court orders hard to enforce?? Are they really, with little children??

I don't buy the whole "I'd have them more but evil ex won't let me" stuff in the majority of cases. I mean I'm sure there are some.men in this position. But this idea of bias in favour of mothers, nah, if you don't want 'bias' in the woman (in hetero couples) should you divorce then easy way around that is to divide parental leave equally and take an equal hit to your career. Then, and only then, will I take the bleating seriously. Most often, courts don't want to upset the status quo and if a child has been looked after predominantly by the mother then.... Your Bad. You should have stepped up when together.

Aalvarino · 23/05/2021 18:08

Bias toward the woman that should read...

Namechangedlady · 23/05/2021 18:08

It's really unfair! I have just done a calculation based on DP's wage (we are not splitting up or anything but this thread peaked my interest)

Based on and annual income of £35000, he would have to pay £348 a month if he had no nightly stays! That seems really low! I am quite shocked tbh Yanbu op!

Jellybabiesforbreakfast · 23/05/2021 18:09

Yes having a parent who can't afford to have you stay over is really beneficial to a child isn't it?

Better than having a parent you're with 90% of the time who struggles to put food on the table, pay the bills and can't afford new school shoes when required.

Getyourarseofffthequattro · 23/05/2021 18:11

@Aalvarino

Court orders hard to enforce?? Are they really, with little children??

I don't buy the whole "I'd have them more but evil ex won't let me" stuff in the majority of cases. I mean I'm sure there are some.men in this position. But this idea of bias in favour of mothers, nah, if you don't want 'bias' in the woman (in hetero couples) should you divorce then easy way around that is to divide parental leave equally and take an equal hit to your career. Then, and only then, will I take the bleating seriously. Most often, courts don't want to upset the status quo and if a child has been looked after predominantly by the mother then.... Your Bad. You should have stepped up when together.

Of course they are. How hard is it to just not be in when the other parent picks up for contact?

And what as an nrp can you do about that? Fuck all except go back to court.

Maybe you don't buy it but that doesn't mean there aren't good men. Maybe you don't know any but it doesn't mean they don't exist.

You've only been able to divide parental leave equally quite recently. And what happens when the mum wants to stay at home and not work and isn't happy with you doing half?

You seem to think this is always an equal decision. And a decision not at all based on practicalities ie who earns more.

Getyourarseofffthequattro · 23/05/2021 18:11

@Jellybabiesforbreakfast

Yes having a parent who can't afford to have you stay over is really beneficial to a child isn't it?

Better than having a parent you're with 90% of the time who struggles to put food on the table, pay the bills and can't afford new school shoes when required.

Ah right so as long as mum's okay, doesn't matter if dad's destitute?
Aalvarino · 23/05/2021 18:11

How is it that the NRP can't afford to have th child to stay over? What are the living circumstances here??

Getyourarseofffthequattro · 23/05/2021 18:13

@Aalvarino

How is it that the NRP can't afford to have th child to stay over? What are the living circumstances here??
If you're talking to me, someone paying out 40% of their wage is unlikely to be able to pay for a house with a bedroom for their child because 60% of a wage doesn't rent or buy a family home.
KarmaNoMore · 23/05/2021 18:13

I am not sure about paying that much... I know someone who tried to keep the standard of living for his kids so he was paying nearly 3 times the calculated CSA amount, but after he paid the rent, maintenance and bills, he had about £60 a month to live on, so he was spiralling down on debt and living on beans on toast just for the kids to hate the time with him as unlike their mum, he couldn’t provide them with their own rooms, expensive holidays or plenty of costly activities during the weekends, one of the kids even refused to use the shower at all as he had an ensuite at home and found it disgusting to share.

All very sad...

Aalvarino · 23/05/2021 18:20

If CAO is broken it's back to court for a
legal remedy... Unpaid work or financial compensation against against the RP.

And working collaboratively with the RP to work out why child doesn't want contact if that is an issue. It often is. And it isn't always (or often, in my professional experience) because 'parental alienation'. Obviously sometimes it truly is. Most times there is more to it though.

Getyourarseofffthequattro · 23/05/2021 18:22

@Aalvarino

If CAO is broken it's back to court for a legal remedy... Unpaid work or financial compensation against against the RP.

And working collaboratively with the RP to work out why child doesn't want contact if that is an issue. It often is. And it isn't always (or often, in my professional experience) because 'parental alienation'. Obviously sometimes it truly is. Most times there is more to it though.

That rarely ever happens.

We're not talking about a child not wanting contact. We're talking about rps being uncooperative and breaking court orders.

reallyreallyborednow · 23/05/2021 18:23

How is it that the NRP can't afford to have th child to stay over? What are the living circumstances here??

If you have one family home which doesn’t have enough equity to stretch to two, then one parent has to move out.

Unless the nrp is a particularly high earner, funding a two or three bed family home where they can see their kids with no deposit and a reduction of 20% of wages is difficult.

So the rp stays with the kids in the family home, nrp usually is in a small flat, house share or back with their parents. None ideal for kids to spend time there.

reallyreallyborednow · 23/05/2021 18:26

*I am not sure about paying that much... I know someone who tried to keep the standard of living for his kids so he was paying nearly 3 times the calculated CSA amount, but after he paid the rent, maintenance and bills, he had about £60 a month to live on, so he was spiralling down on debt and living on beans on toast just for the kids to hate the time with him as unlike their mum, he couldn’t provide them with their own rooms, expensive holidays or plenty of costly activities during the weekends, one of the kids even refused to use the shower at all as he had an ensuite at home and found it disgusting to share.

All very sad...*

Yep dh’s bil paid for private school, music lessons, sports lessons etc. Had to work all hours god sent to do so, so between living in a pretty grim houseshare and always being at work, he barely saw the kids. He wanted to take the kids out of private school so he could afford decent housing and time to see them, but the ex wouldn’t have it.

His kids don’t talk to him as adults, despite him doing absolutely everything his ex asked of him.

Jellybabiesforbreakfast · 23/05/2021 18:30

Ah right so as long as mum's okay, doesn't matter if dad's destitute?

Nope. So long as the child's ok, it's the lesser of two evils.

Actually the situation you're talking about is relatively unusual. Men tend to be better off after divorce.

Aalvarino · 23/05/2021 18:34

So the solution is if you are married and seeking a divorce, as a chap, you lawyer up and say you want 50/50 child contact, surely??

Most blokes who move out of the family home have retained their earning power whilst mums who have stayed at home have taken a giant career hit.

If you don't agree with the mother being a SAHP then don't procreate with someone who wants to be a SAHP or is essentially forced into it because you are the higher earner. Marry someone who is your equal.

halloumihalloumi · 23/05/2021 18:40

My brother pays 7-800 a month for his two DC. After his own mortgage and bills , he isn't left with much and is now buying bikes etc to be kept at his house as ex wife won't let him borrow the other bikes. So he is effectively paying twice. He is currently paying ££££ to try and get proper access to
His kids.

Getyourarseofffthequattro · 23/05/2021 18:47

@Jellybabiesforbreakfast

Ah right so as long as mum's okay, doesn't matter if dad's destitute?

Nope. So long as the child's ok, it's the lesser of two evils.

Actually the situation you're talking about is relatively unusual. Men tend to be better off after divorce.

The child is okay but one of their parents may not be able to have them stay overnight?

Right.

So only dad's money is important.

They're not if they've given up the family home (usual) and are paying 40% of their wage in maintenance.

Could you afford to do that?

Getyourarseofffthequattro · 23/05/2021 18:48

@Aalvarino

So the solution is if you are married and seeking a divorce, as a chap, you lawyer up and say you want 50/50 child contact, surely??

Most blokes who move out of the family home have retained their earning power whilst mums who have stayed at home have taken a giant career hit.

If you don't agree with the mother being a SAHP then don't procreate with someone who wants to be a SAHP or is essentially forced into it because you are the higher earner. Marry someone who is your equal.

Why should you have to lawyer up to have equal access to YOUR OWN children??

Would you expect a mother to have to do that?

Getyourarseofffthequattro · 23/05/2021 18:49

@Aalvarino

So the solution is if you are married and seeking a divorce, as a chap, you lawyer up and say you want 50/50 child contact, surely??

Most blokes who move out of the family home have retained their earning power whilst mums who have stayed at home have taken a giant career hit.

If you don't agree with the mother being a SAHP then don't procreate with someone who wants to be a SAHP or is essentially forced into it because you are the higher earner. Marry someone who is your equal.

Well I have, but how would you know that until you had the baby?

Do you berate women for having married arseholes who don't pay maintenance? Didn't think so.

forinborin · 23/05/2021 18:51

[quote KarmaNoMore]@OverTheRubicon, I agree, it is very difficult for a mum to “block” contact if the dad wants it, even if the dad is abusive or violent towards her or the kids. But then it sounds much better to say “she doesn’t allow me to see the kids” than “I found spending time with the kids tedious and inconvenient so I chose not to see them any more”[/quote]
This will take a massive degree of self-awareness to recognise that. I think in the majority of cases men genuinely think they are prevented from seeing kids by an evil ex. I know one case quite close, the guy is 100% convinced that it is the case, and will show text messages / emails to anyone who (still) listens - but it is glaringly obvious to anyone who reads them that what his ex actually wants is a regular contact schedule known in advance. And yes, she does not warmly let him into her home when he decides just to drop in without any warning at 11pm to say hello to the kids and read them a good night story. But no, he WON'T BE TOLD when he is allowed to see the children.

Pleaseaddcaffine · 23/05/2021 19:01

This thread is depressing, yes there are shitty nrp but equally shitty rp. Its not fair or equal bu a system can't ever truely be.
Dp gives his exw more than he pays towards the running of our join home and joint child that I pay for because she will stop him Seeing the kids else.
Not every rp or nrp is shit but sadly a few are.

HugeAckmansWife · 23/05/2021 19:08

It really is more than a few. If it was only a few there would be a much better system in place. Or perhaps a better system would mean there were only a few. Whatabouttery doesn't help in threads like this. Noone posting thinks ONLY nrps are crap, or that all of them are. But pointing out that RPs can be crap too, and some nrps are great is not helpful in considering what can and should be done to rectify the most common scenario of nrps not contributing appropriately.