to find the title of this BBC drama offensive

[junipertree2]

I am referring to the show 'Subnormal' which tells the story of how black children were inappropriately placed in special education in the 1960s and 1970s. The BBC website is carrying the stories of people who were placed in these schools and they are described very negatively.

While I'm sure this is an important story that needs to be told, I struggle with the implication that special need schools (which of course still exist) were filled with life's no hopers, who would 'struggle to get a labouring job.'

My son has MLD and autism and is highly intelligent in some ways. He attends a special school as there is not really the provision within the mainstream. Is anyone else feeling the same way when they see this word plastered everywhere on the BBC and in the media?

I watched it. The title in my view was appropriate, it demonstrated how views on both race and learning difficulties were very poor in the 70s and 80s and how these impacted the black community in particular. Many people are still living with the consequences of these approaches. The title is ironic in using a term we would never use today.

@Faultymain5

Karen, it wasn’t for you!

Fuck off.

@Babdoc

I’m a retired doctor, and I think it’s very interesting to see the evolution of social attitudes over the decades that I was in practice. Case notes from the 1960’s would say things like “I reviewed this Mongol baby in the clinic today…” 1970’s “I reviewed this Down’s patient..” 1980’s “this mentally handicapped patient …” 1990’s “this patient with special needs…” 2000’s “I saw Linda with her mother at the clinic today..”. It took a long time before our special needs patients were seen as human beings, didn’t it.

What a fascinatign little slice of social history. Thank you.

The offensive thing is suggesting that other parents of children with special needs live in an enlightened paradise, just because we don’t agree with you. What a spiteful comment.

@TheQueef gladly

@Faultymain5

I’m more offended that you have no idea about the programme but chose to have an opinion. I’d really like to tell you to f*ck off, because I find your stance offensive, because I see and understand you are looking at it from a different perspective. I’m offended but I at least understand.

This

I’m a retired doctor, and I think it’s very interesting to see the evolution of social attitudes over the decades that I was in practice.
Case notes from the 1960’s would say things like “I reviewed this Mongol baby in the clinic today…”
1970’s “I reviewed this Down’s patient..”
1980’s “this mentally handicapped patient …”
1990’s “this patient with special needs…”
2000’s “I saw Linda with her mother at the clinic today..”.
It took a long time before our special needs patients were seen as human beings, didn’t it.

Yes, and under the 1944 Education Act children with learning disabilities may have been deemed 'ineducable'. I believe this changed in the 1970s.

I think this thread shows the importance of examining labels, which often reflected attitudes in society at the time they were used. However, one of the main points of the documentary was that the label was used in a way that reflected racial prejudice.

Why have you described a documentary as a drama?

It's meant to make you feel offended and uncomfortable, that's the whole point! Social injustice should make us feel uncomfortable.

I think you have really misunderstood the point of this documentary.

I am so sorry if my post upset anyone?
(I did list some of the horrible names my son has been called but then said he was not in the' category' of child the documentary was focused on so perhaps I was missing the point. I am so sorry if i've upset anyone, that was not my intention at all).
I did watch the documentary. I found it upsetting.
I also find it upsetting that some attitudes in society haven't changed much which is why I posted.

I think your post was auto modded 52 not reported.

Yes I'm sure your post wasn't setting out to offend anyone @52andblue. OP also mentioned some offensive things her son's been called.

OP I am mystified at why you think it's ok to mention offensive terms yourself in reference to your son, yet you object to the documentary title including them. Both are very clearly in the context of drawing attention to how awful they are. Yet for some reason it's only ok if you do it.

This reviewer gets and expresses far better than me the point I am making. www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9602739/CHRISTOPHER-STEVENS-reviews-nights-TV-Racism-scandal-black-pupils.html

I just don't understand why so many Mumsnetters who have watched the programme just don't get it. But who am I, I'm done here.

What point is he making? Presumably you don't mean the bit where he has the DM par for the course pop at teaching unions?

You mean his whataboutery where he tries to suggest a black film director looking at an issue which scandalously affected black children doesn't widen his scope?

@junipertree2

This reviewer gets and expresses far better than me the point I am making. www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9602739/CHRISTOPHER-STEVENS-reviews-nights-TV-Racism-scandal-black-pupils.html

I just don't understand why so many Mumsnetters who have watched the programme just don't get it. But who am I, I'm done here.

Oh, the bit where he subtly complains that they only focused upon black children or those who could speak of how they were treated? The comments section clearly understood his insinuations, going upon the number saying 'what about the white kids?', completely missing the crucial point that the children being sent to these places in this documentary would in all likelihood have never been sent there in the first place had they been white.

Not seeing how that links to taking offence at the documentary title, though.

Thinking about it more I think I do get the point you are trying to make.

Which is that this program focuses on how wrong it was for children to get the label because of racial prejudice and you are concerned that it doesn't challenge the concept that it was wrong for all of the children to get this label regardless of their race?

So the program is essentially buying into the concept that the original idea of educationally subnormal was okay, their issue was that those who weren't subnormal, the black children were labeled as such and sent there.
It was okay for others to be labeled subnormal and receive this educational standard.

If I have understood that right I can see why you find that difficult.

Although as others have said language around disabilities is constantly changing
and attitudes to educational provision have also moved.

Children being placed in the wrong educational settings due to a number of factors including physical disabilities used to be common and this program was focused on the issue of race.
It wasn't intended to consider the wider issues of disabilities and education.

Although the program could perhaps have been more explicit in considering this issues even if briefly.

I may not have got this right though OP?

Regardless of the language around disabilities changing ,some children in special school,s ,will not be sitting exams etc due to the level of their cognitive impairment,we do have different types of specialist settings ( although I realise it's not that simple) to meet the needs of different children ,in those days it seems like all children who were assessed as being " educationally subnormal" would be sent to one type of school what ever the level of their disability ,and in the case of the children featured ,no disability.

As a child in the 1970s my mum taught me to read before I started school to ensure I wouldn't be seen as "educationally subnormal". She'd seen what had happened to other families. She knew that I needed to be developmentally ahead of other kids to avoid being labelled as having a low IQ or a 'subnormal' IQ due to the colour of my skin.

When a child arrived from a West African country and started at my junior school, I remember a teacher talking loudly (in front of the kids) about how the child should be in an ESN school simply because of where he came from.

I am not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse OP or really think that everything in the world revolves around you?

This documentary wasn't about the issues with specialist educational provision for those who needed specialist support. It was about colonialists attitudes that black people are intellectually inferior compared to white people. It was about children who ended up in ESN schools purely because of the colour of their skin and NOT because of their educational needs.

Quite frankly your posts and your utter lack of empathy have made me pretty upset and annoyed.

It's horrendous that your child has been called these names OP and I can quite understand your sensitivity and anger.
In this case I think the title has been deliberately chosen to shock. I do think your anger needs to be diverted from others posting though, I have a child with physical disabilities and trust me I do not live in any kind of enlightened paradise.
I have been in tears sometimes at the way my dc has been treated.

@junipertree2

This reviewer gets and expresses far better than me the point I am making. www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9602739/CHRISTOPHER-STEVENS-reviews-nights-TV-Racism-scandal-black-pupils.html

I just don't understand why so many Mumsnetters who have watched the programme just don't get it. But who am I, I'm done here.

I do not click on links for the racist mail.

I do not click on links for the racist mail interesting comment. I have a black friend who constantly sends me items from the Mail. I usually take them at face value. Perhaps I need a rethink.

@junipertree2

I am referring to the show 'Subnormal' which tells the story of how black children were inappropriately placed in special education in the 1960s and 1970s. The BBC website is carrying the stories of people who were placed in these schools and they are described very negatively.

While I'm sure this is an important story that needs to be told, I struggle with the implication that special need schools (which of course still exist) were filled with life's no hopers, who would 'struggle to get a labouring job.'

My son has MLD and autism and is highly intelligent in some ways. He attends a special school as there is not really the provision within the mainstream. Is anyone else feeling the same way when they see this word plastered everywhere on the BBC and in the media?

I’m pretty pissed about the phrase ‘life’s no hopers’ is that your phrase or theirs? Disgusting language!

The phrase is literally explained in the first two minutes.

What alternative title do you recommend for a documentary about the labelling of black schoolchildren as 'educationally subnormal'?