to find the title of this BBC drama offensive

[junipertree2]

I am referring to the show 'Subnormal' which tells the story of how black children were inappropriately placed in special education in the 1960s and 1970s. The BBC website is carrying the stories of people who were placed in these schools and they are described very negatively.

While I'm sure this is an important story that needs to be told, I struggle with the implication that special need schools (which of course still exist) were filled with life's no hopers, who would 'struggle to get a labouring job.'

My son has MLD and autism and is highly intelligent in some ways. He attends a special school as there is not really the provision within the mainstream. Is anyone else feeling the same way when they see this word plastered everywhere on the BBC and in the media?

I worked in an esn school in central london. That was how it was.

@junipertree2

Maybe I am just over-sensitive, Mumsnetters! Maybe it's just years of having my son called 'Spacker' and 'Retard' by neighbourhood kids, and having the school bus called 'the Mong bus'. Perhaps they can add the word 'subnormal' to their vocabularies now.

Must be nice to live in the enlightened paradises that you do.

People aren't saying that you are being too sensitive because they live in places where there's no name calling.

You're right in saying that they probably wouldn't use a racial slur or derogatory word like slut in a documentary about other groups.

The title is shocking but the main point that these kids were victims of racism is also an important story to tell.

I'm really sorry that your son is the victim of this kind of name calling and would have been labeled subnormal by professionals if he was a child back then.

It's not a show, it's a documentary which exposes the scandal about the unfair and racist education system that existed. Those poor children were denied a decent education based on flawed attitudes and a complete lack of understanding about their needs.

I love how so many people think it’s totally fine because it used to be deemed acceptable.

Can you imagine if a show had carried the name of a well known racial slur from the 70s? Would that be ok? That’s fine if it’s meant to shock, right? Or would people take the view that perpetuating those terms is a really bad thing to do?

It’s amazing how much the disabled community is supposed to just accept in the interests of educating people about their lives.

@MintyMabel

I love how so many people think it’s totally fine because it used to be deemed acceptable.

Can you imagine if a show had carried the name of a well known racial slur from the 70s? Would that be ok? That’s fine if it’s meant to shock, right? Or would people take the view that perpetuating those terms is a really bad thing to do?

It’s amazing how much the disabled community is supposed to just accept in the interests of educating people about their lives.

It WAS about the black community though

@MintyMabel

I love how so many people think it’s totally fine because it used to be deemed acceptable.

Can you imagine if a show had carried the name of a well known racial slur from the 70s? Would that be ok? That’s fine if it’s meant to shock, right? Or would people take the view that perpetuating those terms is a really bad thing to do?

It’s amazing how much the disabled community is supposed to just accept in the interests of educating people about their lives.

Nobody thinks it's fine ,they are however pointing out it was the terminology used at the time However that's not the point of the programme ,the point is that Black children were disproportionately sent to these schools despite most having no learning disabilities,because of racial stereotypes and prejudice,imagine the affect it must have had on their lives ? Also it would have also been to the detriment of disabled children too.

It's really clear in the documentary that the term is unacceptable, and towards the end it records the removal of the label as a victory.

I can understand you've been sensitised to it but it was a late night documentary. I don't think it will register with your child's peers at all.

I’ve just watched it off the back of this thread. Absolutely appalling treatment of those children. Their stories need telling.

The late great Ian Dury wrote "Spasticus Autisticus" specifically to be provocative - and it worked. I suspect there was a lot of blustering and "yes, well, he should/shouldn't have said ..." along with "oh, poor dear" and "how dare he" as well - but ultimately he showed that he was a person rather than just his disability.

The title is horrible, but it was a word in use at the time. It happened and would not magically un-happen no matter the title of the documentary.

Acknowledging and discussing the past does not imply acceptance of errors. The discussion should lead to better outcomes now and in future, but that discussion has to include talk about horrid things having happened.

@ChewtonRoad

The late great Ian Dury wrote "Spasticus Autisticus" specifically to be provocative - and it worked. I suspect there was a lot of blustering and "yes, well, he should/shouldn't have said ..." along with "oh, poor dear" and "how dare he" as well - but ultimately he showed that he was a person rather than just his disability.

The title is horrible, but it was a word in use at the time. It happened and would not magically un-happen no matter the title of the documentary.

Acknowledging and discussing the past does not imply acceptance of errors. The discussion should lead to better outcomes now and in future, but that discussion has to include talk about horrid things having happened.

This. Especially the last para.

@NormanStangerson

Oh dear. Someone has missed the point.

Exactly this.

Too busy being offended to get the point of the program

I remember when there used to be the Spastics Society shop and they had little stickers with Spastics Society on them. No one saw it as offensive but it is.

I'd imagine the point of the title is that that term was used in the past and no one thought it was offensive or not OK to refer to people like that. It's a horrible sign of the time back then.

Mencap was actually called the Association of Parents of Backward Children which is terrible.

I’m more offended that you have no idea about the programme but chose to have an opinion. I’d really like to tell you to f*ck off, because I find your stance offensive, because I see and understand you are looking at it from a different perspective. I’m offended but I at least understand.

@RaspberryCoulis

It's supposed to be offensive, but reflect the language used at the time.

On the 1881 census enumerators had a field asking whether people were "imbeciles, idiots or lunatics".

A textbook I had when doing my teacher training had a section about cretins! This was in the late 60s.

@minniemoll

I used to work for adult social services, about 10-15 years ago we received a referral letter from a GP referring to a patient as educationally subnormal, I was horrified.

Same. In one person's file I found their official certificate of "ineducability" from the 1960s. They had well-off parents who sent them to the local nuns' school instead for a fee. Now leading an independent life in supported living.

The term was in common usage but is no longer deemed acceptable.
The programme was sharing the blatant racism and inequalities that failed so many black children.
Society labelled them as subnormal. That is what was so very wrong; linking intellect and potential with skin colour.

It could be argued that children with learning disabilities have a subnormal intellect. That simply means their intellectual potential has been assessed as below (sub) average or the ‘norm’. We like to think that we are now more enlightened and accept children are more than their IQ; I’m not sure we always welcome or accept people with learning disabilities quite as much as we like to think.

Not strong on irony, are you?
That’s exactly the point.

It did contain a warning at the start of the programme that it used out of date and offensive language in terms of disability and race. Powerful and shocking documentary.

@junipertree2

I am referring to the show 'Subnormal' which tells the story of how black children were inappropriately placed in special education in the 1960s and 1970s. The BBC website is carrying the stories of people who were placed in these schools and they are described very negatively.

While I'm sure this is an important story that needs to be told, I struggle with the implication that special need schools (which of course still exist) were filled with life's no hopers, who would 'struggle to get a labouring job.'

My son has MLD and autism and is highly intelligent in some ways. He attends a special school as there is not really the provision within the mainstream. Is anyone else feeling the same way when they see this word plastered everywhere on the BBC and in the media?

It's not a "drama" and it's not a "show". It's a much needed documentary about quite appalling events and attitudes. It uses that word because that's what these children were called back then.

It's a title that shocks, not for effect, but because this happened and this is what they were called.

As someone who has a child with additional needs, (like many people on this thread) you should be glad of documentaries like this, because it is similar ones in the past that shocked people enough to change the way that children like your DC are treated.

I've taught in specialist schools from the mid 70s when they were called schools for the educationally subnormal, up to three years ago, so I've seen the changes in the way children with additional needs have been treated by society and by the educational system. Documentary makers have driven some of those positive changes, and will continue to do, I'm sure. This is how the public gets to see these children in a more positive way.

It is offensive and that’s the point - that’s how people were viewed.

@madroid

I can understand the OP *@junipertree2*

It grates on you when people you love are hurt by other people's unthinking language.

It's a pejorative, offensive term. The BBC could have titled the programme with some awareness of the people affected directly by such terms still being used as OP says.

Would everyone be as happy if the N word was used? In fact we now don't use that term because it offends. Well so does that title. What's the difference?

Yes, thank you. That is exactly the point I am making. Why is some language used in previous societies considered unspeakable, and yet this is okay?

BTW, for all you posters claiming that we have somehow 'moved on' - the BBC article quotes a guy called Gus John, an academic in education, ffs, and he uses the phrase 'children in normal schools.'

This is in 2021. From a fucking professor.

BTW, for all you posters claiming that we have somehow 'moved on' - the BBC article quotes a guy called Gus John, an academic in education, ffs, and he uses the phrase 'children in normal schools.'

We have moved on. It's ridiculous to think otherwise. But we're not all the way there yet, and people aren't yet perfect.

Subnormal has a meaning in many different areas. It cant be deleted from language like n*** can, which was a perjorative with only one meaning.

Have you actually watched the documentary?

I think you need to see the documentary OP. Gus John is an amazing guy. He was born in Grenada and has done ground breaking work on the scandal of Black children automatically being sent to ESN schools because of institutional racism. He is not saying that children who go to special schools are not normal, quite the opposite in fact. What he did do during the programme was to use the terminology of the time when talking about the past, and shockingly that is exactly how the schools and the pupils who attended them were referred to. I understand the emotions this article has stirred up for you, but Gus John is not the bad guy here.