From GP practice managers

[Bagamoyo1]

m.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR2ZqCHbGq9Tn0WtOYD5B8y8CnjF-MjkmH2tAEz42wEArKz-pl0QRb5s9hI&v=3ru4QhVZ2a8&feature=youtu.be

there needs to be far greater accountability and less buck passing.

Absolutely

So what is clear from this thread is that people equate GP with a face to face appointment

I disagree - myself and many others well understand that for some appointments a telephone or video appointment is not only suitable but at times preferable BUT these have to be managed well - you can't expect patients to be glued to their phone, not going to work or so much as taking a loo break in case the gp deigns to finally call just as they leave their phone. Indeed as pps have said with a telephone appointment it should be easier - not harder - to set at least a time slot if not a specific time, hell even a 2 hour slot would be good!

I wonder if an audit would show repeat requests for appointments face to face because a telephone appointment hasn't resolved their issue.

Exactly! Meaning one patient with one issue has needed 2 appointments - a waste of both the patients and the gps time and nhs money

Those practices can, and should be, identified and plans put in place to rectify that

The problem is that it's incredibly hard for patients to formally complain without there being serious consequences for them in the form of lack of access to gp services and by extension in many cases their families. Because gps close ranks!

There HAS to be a much better system for complaints and assessing whether gp surgeries are doing a good job or not and it HAS to be easier for patients to "vote with their feet". Gps very much like operating as their own controlled businesses yet unlike other businesses the people using them directly aren't able to complain or go elsewhere easily

I agree with a pp that they do definitely try to put you off contacting them full stop. When I rang the other day, I had to listen to their massively long-winded “here’s why you should probably just fuck off” pre-recorded message before having the privilege of waiting on hold for upwards of 100 minutes.

Can any of those defending the systems explain to me why it’s better to lie to a patient by telling them they’re 10th in a phone queue than simply to say “we will not be answering this call.”? I wasted nearly two hours. No one was ever going to answer that call. Bare-faced liars.

@ashmts oh, thank you for clarifying! Like I said I was just going by the national careers service (what we used in high school) and it doesn't say this. The full 10 years is all under the "University" header. But this makes way more sense because I was honestly baffled how anyone managed it

[quote Taliskerskye]@Exhaustedyetstillgoing
eh??
What we believe we are entitled to? What a strange sentence to write.
Most people want an extremely basic service. And you think people think are too entitled. Wow[/quote]
There’s what the NHS ought to be able to provide (what we think we’re entitled to), and what actually can be provided with the resources available (what we are actually entitled to under the current system, which yes may well be substandard). I didn’t read anything else into that comment.

This morning:
Went into surgery to check dad really is registered there, after we couldn't raise them by phone or email three weeks ago.
Big notices at the door - NO ENTRY (you'll spread disease). Right-o.
Spot a side desk for the local health authority. Go there, apologise for coming in, tell the receptionist my problem. She sends me to the practice reception.
I explain to the receptionist. She's aggressive and unpleasant (and in her twenties, I'd guess). She checks. Yes, he is registered. I ask how we can get help when we need it. She says 'All our appointments are gone by eight o'clock. You have to come here and queue.' So, before 8 in the morning, I'm supposed to drag my sick 89 year old father to the next town and have him stand in line outside the building, waiting and hoping to be given an appointment. When we needed them, he looked like a man with a few hours to live - he couldn't have stood up, he was squirting excrement at every angle, vomiting, shaking and when calmer, he was swollen and puffy and could hardly speak, far too weak to stand. Could I ring one of the nhs lines for an appointment? No. The only way is to come and wait outside.

To be honest, I can't believe this is happening to us. All my life (I'm 63) there has been an NHS. This is appalling.

[quote ashmts]@baaaaal It's not ten years unpaid though... A doctor earns 30k straight out of (5 years of) uni (more if they do unsocial hours, which they will on most rotations) and that increases quickly. It's not any less accessible than other graduate professions.[/quote]
You didn’t seriously think that medics lived on student loans for 10 years surely?

@RealhousewifeofStoke yes and now I feel like a fanny for proclaiming myself to be one of the "bright ones" in school hahaha clearly not

In my very weak defence I had / have never actually known a doctor. Not really a defence because I did know how to google 🙈

In my case the receptionists are fine. Its the GPs who are not.

How long can you give advice over the phone for abdominal pain without examining someone. Instead they throw prescriptions.

No sobbing video will change my thoughts. I'm sick of GPs who do nothing and don't refer you either.

@RealhousewifeofStoke we’re on student loans for 6 years, during which time you can’t really work - the holidays are much shorter (46 weeks of tuition not 30 weeks, from year 3 onwards), and you are sent out on placement (I was sent out to Chichester, Maidstone, Margate, and Weybridge, each for 12 weeks, plus other placements inside the M25). We used to get a bursary, but obviously that has gone now.

It really is a significant barrier for people who can’t rely on family support. I had a job in year 1 and year 2, but couldn’t make it work with placements in year 3. One of my friends joined the fucking Navy in year 2, purely because they paid her a stipend while she was studying (she was perfectly happy with that career choice, but it was definitely finances that pushed her that way).

There is an issue with widening access to non-traditional students, and finances often come up as a perceived barrier to entry. Many people do not feel they can commit to 5-6 years of tuition before they start earning. Even if the salary is good later.

@DoingItMyself this is appalling.
I started a thread about lack of f2f appointments for this very reason, I just can't believe what stupid rules are being put in place. The old, very young and otherwise vulnerable are massively losing out on vital care. Enough is enough.

@BlackAlys

Wow, so many of you 'decent folk' justifying this abuse.

"I'd never do that but some receptionists are awful...." ad Infinitum.

I've stopped reading after a short while. How can any of you justify that treatment? Any sentence that has a 'but' in hints at them deserving it. I'm genuinely shocked that you think that it's somehow justifiable.

It's not. Nor is the behaviour towards patients from some reception staff. Both are wrong. As a pp said there could be a film about how rude receptionists are and the harm they cause to patients already in distress.

My practice has a policy that you can only see your registered Doctor. So I can't get through after one thousand times, so I show up with my DS who is just over 1. I felt he had a bad chest infection. The receptionist says your Doctor is on holiday and so call back in 10 days. I said that's ridiculous I need to see someone else now. There were doctors in for emergencies ( it was the afternoon) The receptionist refused. I rang the next morning at 8am same issue. In the end my DS ended up in ambulance with breathing difficulties due to croup.

I couldn't see a female doctor when I suspected I had a vagina prolapse. My male doctor was fine, but he was just a bit well what do you expect. Unfortunately he's one of the partners and there is a major shortage of GPs in our area. A new surgery is being created down the road and I can't wait to change ( will check it's not run by them first)

Yet my DH thinks our surgery is great so I wonder if it's a womens issue. Branded as a over the top mother or crazy lady. When a man rings up they can be assertive and helped. When I try I'm neurotic

@hopingtobehappiness

My practice has a policy that you can only see your registered Doctor. So I can't get through after one thousand times, so I show up with my DS who is just over 1. I felt he had a bad chest infection. The receptionist says your Doctor is on holiday and so call back in 10 days. I said that's ridiculous I need to see someone else now. There were doctors in for emergencies ( it was the afternoon) The receptionist refused. I rang the next morning at 8am same issue. In the end my DS ended up in ambulance with breathing difficulties due to croup.

I couldn't see a female doctor when I suspected I had a vagina prolapse. My male doctor was fine, but he was just a bit well what do you expect. Unfortunately he's one of the partners and there is a major shortage of GPs in our area. A new surgery is being created down the road and I can't wait to change ( will check it's not run by them first)

Yet my DH thinks our surgery is great so I wonder if it's a womens issue. Branded as a over the top mother or crazy lady. When a man rings up they can be assertive and helped. When I try I'm neurotic

I always get my husband to ring for our kids, sadly he is treated totally differently. It's a disgrace.

I was in our GP last week and the receptionist verbally abused an elderly man for not requesting a prescription sooner. The man must have been in his 80's. Giving advice is one thing but she was shouting at his like a (nasty) school teacher. It was so awful I had to intervene. I don't condone abuse of any staff but I'm sorry I have seen far more instances of reception staff being rude to patients than the other way around.

@hopingtobehappiness honestly google "medical misogyny" "gender gap in healthcare" and similar you're not imagining it. Even better direct your dh to same!

@Mummytemping you too. The thread I started on this a few years back several posters commented that they or their dc received better treatment if represented by a man! Shouldn't happen

Also you have every right to request a female dr whenever you wish. Appalled for you that you were informed otherwise, ditto your child can't be refused access to a gp because the named gp is on holiday! They are failing in their duty of care to you and your family.

Indeed @Graphista I had a hospital appointment on Thursday. Two week pathway. Everyone was called in as Mr John Smith; every woman as Jane Brown. The excuse is always that it offends women if they get the title wrong. Therefore, don't afford the men a title. It really is hard. And every time I have an NHS appointment I have to complete an equality and diversity form. The people in the NHS are supposed to be our best brains. It really isn't hard unless there is a complete acceptance of patriarchy and misogyny. But if one dares call it out, one is that patient. But I do and shall.

Apologies for typos.

Credit where credit is due - they have done a great job on the vaccinations. But everything else remains woefully inadequate.
^ surprising, given GP were paid extra to carry out vaccinations

I genuinely nearly died of sepsis because a receptionist decided I didn’t need to see a GP. If I hadn’t had someone living with me to take me to A&E a few hours later it could have been a very different outcome. GP surgeries have been dreadful most of the times I’ve needed them.

I think the issue with many GP receptionists I have come across is they behave like admin staff, not customer service. The reality is it's not a hugely skilled role on the admin front - a friend of mine went straight into a role as a GP receptionist after university with no office experience at all.

What it does require is customer service. Patients are customers and the receptionist is often a key point of contact/front of house, yet many lack customer service skills.

Example:
I ring to book an appointment. I've got a delicate gynae issue I need to see the doctor about and don't want to explain details to the receptionist. I'm not looking for an urgent appointment and happy to wait a few weeks.

Receptionist: Well we do triage for appointments here, you have to tell me what you want to see the Doctor for [tone is brusque, dismissive, and does not treat the patient as a valued customer].

Better customer service way to say this: "I'm so sorry, but the doctors do ask that we note down a very brief description so they can prioritise appointments and prepare. I understand if you'd rather not give details but even a general category would be really helpful. Thank you"

[Tone is polite, empathetic, and acknowledges the patient's concerns].

Abuse of staff is plain wrong. I (like many others) have some appalling examples of primary "care". That is no excuse IMO.

What I can't understand though is how there can possibly be a shortage of doctors. For years entry to medical university courses has been incredibly competitive with many very bright and hard working students losing out. Surely the number of medical degree places should be increased.

Or those qualifying should work full-time. At least for a minimum of 10 years post qual.

Our surgery is still closed to callers. Every time I have been down there, there is a straggly queue across the car park, all persons giving personal information through the intercom in the hearing of all the others. There are still no f2f appointments for the foreseeable future and any document you may need to collect is pushed through a crack in the door. They have built a vaccination hub in the car park, so the nearest parking is now 400m away and subject to charges, but I have never seen the hub in use.

In the meantime, it's a two week wait for a telephone appointment and both the receptionist and the practice manager have taken it upon themselves to give me incorrect benefit advice and, as I told them would happen, my benefit payments have been suspended and I have had another breakdown.

My smear is now nearly two years overdue, ditto annual review for a heart condition, I have not been called for a flu vaxx in three years, or a pneumonia vaxx last autumn.

And yes there's no excuse for patients being rude to receptionists (or other hcps). However there has to be some cognizance of provocation and the manner in which too many receptionists speak to patients is unacceptable. It stems, I appreciate, from a particular demograph.

I do see your point NaToth I was contacted to make an apt for my annual thyroid test. First time in five years actually that the practice has noted it should be done. No problem, make an appointment and turn up at the allotted time. Notice on door advising that blood tests are that way. Arrive that way and get told very heavy handedly that I should have reported to reception first. Well excuse me there was no signage to that effect and an additional interaction would have created increased contact. The HCP could see whether I had an apt so what was the reason a) for the raised voice and b) for expecting me to report to reception first (which had a note saying only knock if you have a valid reason).

If practice staff raise their voices in a heavy handed manner to patients, perhaps someone who works for a practice could explain to me why patients should at all times treat all staff with utter respect and courtesy? Is it not a two way street?

I am old enough to tilt my head and calmly say " I do beg your pardon, are you speaking to me?". And it's extraordinary how there is almost always a volte face when one does that and the unpleasant specimen realises they may have been rude or over bearing to the wrong person.