About trying to buy a new car?

[EssentialHummus]

Is it just me or has buying a car gotten a million times harder over the past decade?

We need a new car because we're a few months off being a family of five, all being well, and there's no way to fit a 3yo and newborn twins and their car seats and all the stuff in our perfectly lovely sedan, that we'd otherwise have kept until it croaked.

So far I've learnt:

• You can buy a car in cash, on credit, or with two different kinds of lease schemes, and (counterintuitively) buying upfront won't get you the better deal.
• You may be buying a Citroen which is actually the same model as a Peugeot and a Vauxhall, or a Nissan with a Renault engine, made in the same factory in much the way that Aldi muesli rolls off the same production line as branded muesli but gets packaged and priced differently.
• Engine size is utterly irrelevant, it's all about horsepower. There are cars branded (say) 1.8 which actually have 1.6l engines, because horsepower.
• ULEZ and emissions standards. I'm happy that environmental protection is becoming a higher priority, but it seems to mean that lots of perfectly good cars, which have already been produced and generated a lot of carbon in production, are now no-go in London and will need to be scrapped.
• Absolutely no correlation between brand, price and service quality. Our current car is a Mercedes, and trying to book a test drive of a new one or clarify information is like trying to climb up Mount Doom. Meanwhile over at Vauxhall it's one phone call and you can borrow whatever car you like for a weekend-long test drive and they'll drop it to your door and collect it after.
• Every brand has its own models and acronyms, which in and of themselves don't mean anything - is "Feel" better than "Flair"? "S" or "SE"? Cue 20 minutes of digging.

And so on.

I'm not a yokel. I'm a moderately literate person wanting to spend not too much of our family's money on a car that suits us and will last a good while. I'm a bit of an inverse snob and loved having an £800 banger (sadly gone now) when friends were eyeing up each other's Range Rovers. If it’s not too much to ask I’d also like a car that doesn’t disable the radio every time I put my handbag on the passenger seat, apparently because it thinks my handbag is an untethered small child.

It's very much first world problems but, really, does it have to be so difficult?

My diesel car is a 2014 plate (64) and is ULEZ compliant....

Ah, ULEZ. We’ve just bought a 2016 van to convert, it meets all the emission standards, can go into Bath/Birmingham/all the ULEZ in France no problem... but according to TfL we can’t use it in London without paying. It makes zero sense and will require a mountain of paperwork (costing £90) to sort

ah - a Berlingo was one of the old bangers I was given! Loved that car (van?). Ridiculous boot space, loads of room inside, but outer dimensions much smaller than all the SUV types, so miles better for city driving as you can get through smaller spaces and park more easily. Ugly as sin, especially as I had one of the older ones that appeared to have been modelled on a hearse, but I really did love it.

@EssentialHummus so any petrol post 2006 is OK?
Have you looked at Japanese import MPVs? all have slidey doors.
Toyota Alphard/Nissan Elgrand/ [[https://www.swcimports.co.uk/vehicle/honda-stepwagon-spada-z-high-grade-fresh-import-key-less-entry-hid-headlight-on-route-in-plymouth-devon-f37c2e9c-8620-487f-aaf4-8d2d9fbb7642 Honda Stepwagon ]]
This is sort of fantasy car shopping again, but on the sensible side:

• Notoriously reliable makes

With a 10-15 year old car yes you’re going to spend some money on repairs/upkeep, but they are cult cars so should retain a fair bit of value. And wound you resent spending the money less on a fun and interesting vehicle?

• Importers are only going to bother with good, fully serviced examples
• the look like feckin spaceships not pints of milk!

Link fail sorry!

Ah @BeastOfBODMAS you and I would get on . I’m considering it, and have joined a few Alphard groups on Facebook.

Basically, as far as I can see, you can’t get three car seats in a row with more recent ones because they have two passenger rows with individual armchairs x2. I’m not sure, but it seems so. The models with the flippy seats would work, because then you can spin the first passenger row 180 degrees, so two kids there and the third kid in the third row facing forward. But it looks like the swivel seats were discontinued post-2008, so that’s a really tight window between Ulez and swivel seats. And a bit older than I’d like ideally. But I’d really love one, I think they’re a bit special. The FB groups are full of people camping in them here there and everywhere, it looks amazing and is apparently like driving around in a settee.

I have a Kangoo van for my work and I really love it, so of all the new/ish options the Berlingo is the best fit. I’m just a bit that the biggest engine they offer is a 1.2 - it’s probably fine most of the time, but with all five of us and all our crap driving to France once or twice a year? There is a diesel but the dealer advised us against it.

OP I feel your pain - we were in a similar position living in South London zone 2 and doing maybe 4000 miles a year primarily trips out of London to see parents/family etc. Life is too short to be worrying about car choices!

We went through the whole thinking about do we need car given small mileage etc and hassle of having something that costs £1000+ a year (insurance/tax/maintenance/parking etc) just to sit outside on the road.

Before children we were briefly in a car club which was great as we got to drive new cars when we needed but after children decided we really do need a car as knowing I have one available feels safer in case of sudden emergency with parents/ sudden trip required. Plus keeping three separate car seats was a hassle and dearest daughter has a tendency to be sick on journeys so hiring cars/ car club wasnt really on.

In the end went for a Renault Scenic which has the capacity to seat 7 and was spacious for our needs. Plus family features and wasnt very flash.

We got one that was 7-8 years old with a relatively high mileage as we reasoned by that stage the most depreciation had taken place and any mechaincial issues had been sorted out: we could have bought a newer one but felt it was a waste of money and couldnt be justified as it wouldnt be used very much. So far it has been fine - we have had it for around 8 years and apart from regular servicing there have been minimal costs. Its not very fancy but meets our needs and we dont have any issues about using it for trips to the tip/DIY shops/ picking up dirty footballers as some of neighbours do with more pristone cars.

So my advice is consider the likes of Renault Scenic, VW Touran, Peugeot 5008, Citroen Picasso for a standard car that will carry family and loads. I would choose one that is petrol or post 2015 for ULEZ reasons.

Just my thoughts!

The ULEZ exemption sounds like a great reason to get a suitable pre 1980 classic. At least you have the chance of its value increasing and it won't have and engine covered on sensors etc. that seem to be to bain and demise of all modern vehicles.
I'm similar to you and have always regarded a new car as a big waste of money. I'm happy to travel about in the older car and put £500 p/yr into its up keep rather than be exposed to the eye watering depreciation of driving a new vehicle off the forecourt. Luckily we don't have the restrictions central London has on vehicle age.

@reenon

You need the company me and my husband own...we source cars for our customers... They call us having an idea what they want. We help them narrow it down and then we find it for them. Deliver it to your door. Nice and easy. You don't have to do anything! 👌

Just messaged you! You sound exactly what I need!

@EssentialHummus we would absolutely get on!
I’ve just learned that the Nissan Cube comes as a 7 seater so I’m mentally revising upwards number of planned children as dictated by future car.

If you’re already in the camper conversion sphere, what’s a few hundred quid on transplanting your ideal seats into your ideal vehicle, in the grand scheme of things?
When I had a works van, I had a set of 3 Transit crew seats put into the back. They used 22 inch coach bolts so those seats were more secure than the original front ones! All MOT compliant, 3 point belts and no trouble to insure the change.

I know engines are all smoke and mirrors nowadays, but 1.2 seems very small for something the size of the new Berlingo. However, I am a big fan of the pre-2008 Kangoo/Berlingo shape, strong popemobile vibes.

If you settle on a car you like, go to Car Wow and they show you the best deal you can get. The dealership has to honour it.

I do feel your pain...

I'm considering paying over a grand to get my air con fixed on a car that will only get £4K on trade in rather than commit to buying a newer more suitable one.

Been looking for nearly a year!

Insanity

Similar here, though as we live just outside the zone we've decided to simply pay up about once a month and then in a year or two an electric car should be affordable (currently 7-seaters are still too much).

I recommend getting a ULEZ-compliant Ford Galaxy/VW Sharan - many minicabs are sold off after 3-5 years so there's oodles around.

I thought the classic car exemption was being removed for the ULEZ extension? Someone was complaining yesterday (goes to check)

After the recent collapse of our 15-year-old car we're currently tootling around in a 30-year-old Saab that isn't allowed to go anywhere, basically. Not quite classic enough for an exemption. Just a word of warning - we ordered a new (electric) five months ago and are still waiting - no sign of when it might turn up. Chip shortages are a real problem. So be sure to factor availability/delivery times into your decision.

@EssentialHummus We're waiting for our Alphard (praying to the gods of DVLA at the moment). We're having a rear conversation but the middle seats which were 'Captain chairs' with the armrests have been swapped for a bench seat so we have three seats still, which will all rotate as needed.

Me and DH are currently looking for a car after our (fairly new one) was written off. We only got the old car 2 years ago but so much has changed in that time. Its been absolute headache. 3 months down the line and we are still to buy due to the sheer amount of options and not knowing what the right thing to is.

Ooh @WetJan that’s really interesting! Who did the seat swapping for you/how did you arrange that?

We still haven’t bought anything but inching closer. At some point it seemed like there was a Berlingo-shaped vw with more powerful engine options but a) it seems discontinued (?) and b) it’s called the Caddy which makes it sound like an extra in Line of Duty. Vaguely considered new/ish Mercedes Vito which has very powerful engines but ruled out for size.

Totally with you. I'm driving a 18 year old Fiat Punto which I love because it's simple old school and low mileage (belonged to elderly neighbour who had to give up driving due to ill health). I've been looking at replacements but am wary of all the electronic whistles and bells such as park.assist sensors etc etc.

We're buying it through a place that specifically imports alphards (Imperial Leisure on the South coast). I had a panic when we had already paid the deposit and then realised the middle seats were Captain ones but he changes them for a bench as standard with a rear conversion so I assume it's not too hard to do. I think they need to change the rails on the floor though so not as simple as sliding one set out and one set in.

Thanks wet. I didn’t realise that was an option.

joy, I hear you. If only not for bloody Ulez here.

I’ve just purchased a Berlingo Flair. Petrol. 2018. Last of the previous model. Mine has a camper conversion at the back as well with sink, cooker etc that is all removable. £12K. Low mileage.
I also have the three rear seats that can be individually moved in/out and the back floor is flat. They are used a lot by campers & cyclists.

I love it. Is a very versatile vehicle.

I understand you very well because I try to get a Supra on 2JZ, and it's so hard to get one. It's tough to buy a JDM car.

There are so few available, and the available ones are often overpriced. The best way to find a good deal on a JDM car is to search online forums and classifieds websites like jdmbuysell.com. You can often find good deals on JDM cars imported from Japan. However, you must be careful when buying a JDM car, as there are often scams associated with them. Make sure you do your research and only buy from a reputable source.