To think it’s time to do away with the ‘average size is 16’ fact?

[AnAwesomePossum]

I mean honestly, it’s a “fact” that has been perpetrated since early 2010s (if not before) but I’m struggling to see how it’s supposed to be recorded. Its not the census - which if anything should ask BMI; but it doesn’t. You can’t do it based on viewing a person as a 16 looks different between someone 5’ and 6’. It could be average clothes sales - but it’s not hard to consider that someone at a larger or lower size buys a lot in one go to accommodate their needs - so essentially it will always be skewed.

So, my TLDR - AIBU to suggest that we need to rid ourselves of the ‘average size is...’.

I feel like it’s time to stop thinking that an ‘average’ dress size is even a thing. People are not sizes, and sizes mean absolutely nothing anyway. It’s just another means to validate or shame people with an arbitrary number.

[as an aside, men do not have an ‘ideal’ dress size and as far as I’m aware, I don’t know of any existing ‘average men’s sizes’ “facts”]

16 is the point where clothes start to disappear. If you're looking for something cool and fashionable, very likely you won't find much.

We need to do awsy with sizes and size clothes by reference to waist circumferencr or inside leg and so on.

This. Same as with men

@Undisclosedlocation

I could say I’m ‘proud’ that since my twenties I’ve gone from a size 12/14 to a size 8/10 now. It would however disguise the fact that I weigh half a stone more now than then

Clothes sizes are pretty meaningless and are based on vanity selling not body shape

Is that because of size inflation? Clothes being branded as smaller sizes than they use to be?

It's just a fact, no meaning beyond that. Unsure if it's the mean, or median

@NiceGerbil

The other thing that annoys me which tbf doesn't happen very often is when a woman you know will suddenly turn your top up at the back to see the size on the label. Happened about 3 times. Very odd.

This has literally never happened to me. I can't imagine it's a common thing at all.

Are you sure they aren't trying to help you by tucking in a label that's sticking up at the back?

I always find this hard to believe.

I'm a size 14 and most of my friends and school mums are considerably slimmer than me.

While people are fatter on average than they used to be, and it's true that shop dress sizes are stupid and meaningless (why not just put them in cm/in?), women have changed shape in the last 50-60 years.

Diets are more nutritious and women now do the same kind of sports as men, so they are taller and have more muscly stomachs than they used to. We are also not strapped into all manner of stays and trusses.

In general, even fit and healthy people are bigger than they used to be.

Cor, where I live I have trouble believing the 'average' is as low as size 16 (!!)

If someone comes on MN & says "I'm terrified to go to the swimming pool & let people see my size 16 body!" is it ok to point out THEN that they are actually pretty 'average' & won't stand out I mean, there are contexts where it makes sense to say this.

fwiw, as someone not fat, with a traditional hour glass figure, I have to put it out there that I Also Struggle to find clothes that fit well. Everything is for the apple or pear-shaped. I have resorted to adjustable waist trousers in teenage sizes.

I'm having trouble getting clothes for slim teen DS, too. XL used to mean Tall but not fat. Now XL means fat but not tall (!!)

@forinborin

Oh, by the way, always wanted to ask (not British). I usually wear 8/10 bottom and 10/12 top, but bought a vintage item a couple of years ago (not sure about the manufacturing year, presumably 50s), it was labeled 16 and it was quite tight. Was there a change in labeling over time? Or just gentle size creep?

Vanity sizing innit. I'm a 16 unless we're in Next, when I'm a 10.

I agree that the sizing (not just in the UK) is all over the place, but looking around any UK high street you can see the average person on the average street is overweight. Whatever size clothes they're in. And tbf, I'd say 16 is at the bottom end.

I'm a 16-18 (as I said, unless I go to Delusion Heaven (Next) where they tell me I'm a 10. And boy do I lap it up. Arguably far more damaging helping people to think that being overweight is healthy, or worse, that they're not overweight at all.

@battenburgwithtea

We need to do awsy with sizes and size clothes by reference to waist circumferencr or inside leg and so on.

This. Same as with men

Except that wouldn't make fat people like me thinner, or more healthy would it?

I'm still overweight whether I'm in a size 18 M&S a size XXL Zara (fuck Zara) or a 80cm Gap.

*Except that wouldn't make fat people like me thinner, or more healthy would it?

I'm still overweight whether I'm in a size 18 M&S a size XXL Zara (fuck Zara) or a 80cm Gap*

Of course not, but having the actual measurements as the size would help so much and take out a ton of guesswork.

The Average IS a 16. Doesn't mean its healthy. As someone else said, it's just the mean statistic.

@AnAwesomePossum

But that’s the thing - I hear it again and again ‘size 16 is average’ - but based on who? What physiological structure? What height? Why do we only care about ‘average’ size of women and not men?

The “average size” for women has consistently been a ‘16’ for women for a long time now but I don’t know how that information is collated and what the purpose of knowing it is beyond a way to validate or beat women with another stick. It’s meaningless.

But that’s the thing - I hear it again and again ‘size 16 is average’ - but based on who? What physiological structure? What height?

Based on the average height of UK women I expect, which is 5ft 4".

Sure, and that's what I do anyway, but that's not the point of the OP is it?
The "average" size is 16 OP isn't asking us to comment on the faff that is the Gap sizing system, but the fact that a lot of people ARE a size 16 whether they think they are or not.
I'm all for an overhaul of sizing systems, but the only thing that seems to have happened recently is increased vanity sizing. I was also an XL in an H&M top, and last summer, even after larding it on during lockdown, I'd mysteriously shrink to a M.

Im a 16 and there aare never any bloody 16s when I go whopping, 8,1`0.12,14 and then 18 up, so there must be a lot of 16s buying them

Another one here wishing clothes just had measurements (that are accurate!). The gaps between sizes are particularly annoying. I find one size will be very tight and the next size up is hanging off me. Both unflattering.

@optimistic40

Another one here wishing clothes just had measurements (that are accurate!). The gaps between sizes are particularly annoying. I find one size will be very tight and the next size up is hanging off me. Both unflattering.

But even if you check the measurements and order the size it says, they aren't right.

I ordered a skirt online for a wedding. The reviews all said the sizes came up small so I checked the size guide, measured my waist and ordered the correct size. Did it fit? No. The waist was massive. At least 4" bigger than claimed.

There isn't an equivalent of 'a perfect 10' for men, although 6 ft is used as a good height.

16 is a mainstream size across all ranges. It falls at the upper end of brands that cut small (usually for young adults) and the lower end of plus sizing.

I'm a shortie at 5'2. 16 would be overweight on me but not unusually so. A tall woman of broader build may be structurally too tall for smaller sizes lile 8s and 10s, and be of healthy build at 16.

In a society that is 2/3s overweight or obese, it's not surprising that 16 is an "average size"

I though the average man's size was 6 inches?

Perfect 10 is ten out of ten for looks, not a size 10.

I'm a shortie at 5'2. 16 would be overweight on me but not unusually so. A tall woman of broader build may be structurally too tall for smaller sizes lile 8s and 10s, and be of healthy build at 16.*

I'm size 14-16 at 5'11 with a big boned and well muscled body and I'm still overweight by BMI and chunky to look at. I look nice as a 12. You'd have to be a lot taller than me to fill out a 16 at healthy weight.

Most 'curvy' models are taller than me and wearing a 12-14 (or the clothes are pinned at the back).

I’d have thought average size is 12, it always seems to sell out first.

@HarebrightCedarmoon

Perfect 10 is ten out of ten for looks, not a size 10.

I’ve heard it used a lot to mean that 10 is the perfect size (slim but curvy! Because god forbid you’re your own healthy shape and size and not maximum appealing to men!)

Why are people always surprised that clothing sizes change over time? We've got taller and bigger, it would be weird if they didn't. Old houses and furniture are built for smaller people than newer ones. Should we still be using patterns and measurements from the 1600s?