To think it’s time to do away with the ‘average size is 16’ fact?

[AnAwesomePossum]

I mean honestly, it’s a “fact” that has been perpetrated since early 2010s (if not before) but I’m struggling to see how it’s supposed to be recorded. Its not the census - which if anything should ask BMI; but it doesn’t. You can’t do it based on viewing a person as a 16 looks different between someone 5’ and 6’. It could be average clothes sales - but it’s not hard to consider that someone at a larger or lower size buys a lot in one go to accommodate their needs - so essentially it will always be skewed.

So, my TLDR - AIBU to suggest that we need to rid ourselves of the ‘average size is...’.

I feel like it’s time to stop thinking that an ‘average’ dress size is even a thing. People are not sizes, and sizes mean absolutely nothing anyway. It’s just another means to validate or shame people with an arbitrary number.

[as an aside, men do not have an ‘ideal’ dress size and as far as I’m aware, I don’t know of any existing ‘average men’s sizes’ “facts”]

Doesn't make any sense.

Sizing varies massively between different brands. Size 10 in one shop is 14 in another.

It also varies over time.

I thought it was average size 14 a few years back.

There's also issues around sort of ideas about who should be what.

One of my DDs is a 10/12 depending on shop. This causes issues for my mum who has an idea that children should be small.

The fact she's 3 inches taller than me and is a totally different build. And is fit and very strong seems to be irrelevant to just a flat that's too big.

They also praise the other one a lot who is shorter and a totally different build for being slender (she's not just slender she's tiny!). Not good.

Men's sizes are also vanity sized. For reasons I won't go into we measured the waist on his jeans and it was 4 inches bigger than the label!

@forinborin it’s vanity sizing - people can’t cope with being told they’re fat (and won’t buy clothes that make them feel bad) so sizing has drastically changed over the years to keep retailers happy. I sew and dress patterns are based on the original size guides. I make size 12 clothes for myself but buy size 8 in the shops.

Really who actually gives a shite about this stuff.

@Slippy78

Why do we only care about ‘average’ size of women and not men? It's a statistical fact. If you 'care' about it then you should be asking yourself why.

Maybe we should ask why media ‘cares’ about average size for women but not for men. What reason could there be that dress size is a sellable topic but isn’t for men?

As far as I go, I care because dress sizes are entirely meaningless as I can easily wear an 8 in M&S but after some weight gain this year, I’m closer to a 12 in other stores. It means nothing, yet we still use an obscure number to beat women around the head with or use to praise others.

Very much so. Sizes used to be based on standard measurements, they are now much larger.
Thank goodness for that, they wouldn't fit half the women of the 90's and they were slim.
I have a vintage coat size 12 the buttons won't close I'm very slim and petite, it is realistically a UK 4/6 the size manufactured for preteens/teenagers these days.
Nutrition and lifestyle has changed.
I don't think tiny malnourished womens clothes of the past is a good measure for comparison.

[quote BeardieWeirdie]@forinborin it’s vanity sizing - people can’t cope with being told they’re fat (and won’t buy clothes that make them feel bad) so sizing has drastically changed over the years to keep retailers happy. I sew and dress patterns are based on the original size guides. I make size 12 clothes for myself but buy size 8 in the shops.[/quote]
This exactly

[quote RestingPandaFace]Have a read of this.

www.goodhousekeeping.com/uk/fashion-beauty/a556302/chart-shows-shocking-change-in-clothing-sizes/[/quote]
Oh thanks (and to everyone else who answered)! That is exactly my scenario.
It is strange, as purely from popular images from that era "iconic" women do look a bit fuller. I mean, what if Marilyn Monroe is size 16, she's clearly not overweight.

I’ve no idea why anyone needs to know what the average clothes size is for women or how anyone would actually work out what the average is.

You’re right that we don’t hear about men’s sizes so much.

And the thing is people commenting on ‘mode’ - that’s still meaningless as it has no relevance to what height or composition as person is, yet we still throw around these general ‘size’ measurements which mean nothing.

So for what possible reason is there to classify ‘average dress size’? When it means pretty much nothing why throw another label at women that wasn’t required in the first place?

'Maybe we should ask why media ‘cares’ about average size for women but not for men. What reason could there be that dress size is a sellable topic but isn’t for men?'

Same reason there's often omg what a disaster stories about increases in women drinking/ smoking. And from what I've noticed men get a mention on this only when it's about people generally. Not on their own iyswim. Even though they drink more, smoke more, and are more or less the same when it comes to being overweight/ obese.

Plus anything about obesity is usually accompanied by a pic of big female arses. Or a video clip of women eating etc. Not always but often.

@Lockheart

The average adult in the UK is overweight (two thirds of UK adults are overweight or obese).

If the most women are overweight and the most common clothes size is a 16, then it's not a huge leap to make a connection between the two.

However, I agree clothing sizes are arbitrary numbers and just because you're a 12 in M&S and a 14 in H&M, it doesn't mean you've gained 15lb crossing the road. Clothes sizes are guidelines only.

God yes, I have clothes from within H&M that range from XS to XL! I’m sure there’s an excepted size measurement thingy but they are differ

All* differ

The other thing that annoys me which tbf doesn't happen very often is when a woman you know will suddenly turn your top up at the back to see the size on the label. Happened about 3 times. Very odd.

The other thing that annoys me which tbf doesn't happen very often is when a woman you know will suddenly turn your top up at the back to see the size on the label
I'd accidentally on purpose elbow her in the eye.

@NiceGerbil

The other thing that annoys me which tbf doesn't happen very often is when a woman you know will suddenly turn your top up at the back to see the size on the label. Happened about 3 times. Very odd.

Erm I think not - what a passive aggressive gesture

@NiceGerbil what? Who are these women that you know??

Shops have gotten crazy now. When I'm ordering online I feel like I might as well just close my eyes and pick whatever number my finger falls on.

I've gained a lot of weight since having my daughter and becoming disabled. I used to be a size 4. Im now around a 12-14 but wear clothes from sizes 10 to 18, depending on where they're from. There's no way I'm an actual 18 I'm right at the high side of an average BMI.

I wish all stores would have to conform to a stricter standard measurement system to size clothing.

Tbf it's been my mum a couple of times and once a very good friend who was very competitive and actually I realised not very nice so I don't see her any more!

Absolutely right, OP. Men in Gen X are fatter than women anyway. Their average size is XL, I woukd say.

A vintage size 16 is actually closer to real size, as opposed to courtesy size 10 or even 8. People often trot out the old trope that in the Fifties women were curvier and had more meat on them because you know Marilyn was a size 16. However, in reality, she was tiny, even when she filled out a bit. Her waist was between 23.5 to 24 inches and her hips were 34 inches. However, clothes were fitted with much less ease, as people wore support garments. That's one of the reason a lot of the cheaper reproduction clothes don't really look that good.

Post-war generations overall have gotten bigger, as in taller, broader etc because we have access to a lot more meat-based protein and overall have more access to food.

Sizing is so inconsistent anyway, I don’t know any women who is the same dress size in every shop.

Are people ‘beat round the head with it’ though? I don’t know anyone who isn’t a size 16 and feels bad that they aren’t because it’s meant to be the average?

Women’s bodies are often harder to size than men’s because you get a lot of variety in different size breasts, hips, waist, bums etc. You could have larger breasts but a small waist, or wide hips but a smaller chest etc. Maybe you’re very slim and have a big bum, or you’re heavier but with small boobs.

Men vary in shapes and sizes of course but it doesn’t seem to be as diverse, a t-shirt is likely to fit them in their usual size in most shops.

@forinborin it has changed. People often cite Marilyn Monroe's dress size as being a size 16 but that was vintage sizing and actually she would have been a lot smaller in todays sizing.

Also shops don't assume things like men's legs being all one length.

[quote An0n0n0n]@forinborin it has changed. People often cite Marilyn Monroe's dress size as being a size 16 but that was vintage sizing and actually she would have been a lot smaller in todays sizing.[/quote]
Marilyn Monroe was tiny, if you see my post above, her waist measured between 23.5 to 24 inches and her hips were 34 inches.