When your mother blames the woman...

[anxietyaunt]

My mother is... something else. She’s never been much of an advocate for women’s rights. I’ve always known this so I shouldn’t be affected by some of her comments, but I am.

Despite being a smart woman and (allegedly) knowing the statistics around domestic violence against women, she can’t help herself. She thinks courts are unfairly biased towards women. That women should “stop carrying on” and sort things out themselves. “Deal with it.” “Stop making things up and ruining lives.”

This woman raised me. Sorry, not sure what my AIBU is, but I’m so incredible saddened by it all.

My mum too. Victims of historical abuse should have spoken up years ago, women who wear revealing clothes are asking to get sexually assaulted or raped, women can’t have it all ways etc. She’s also very unkind about women we know who are attractive or who don’t dress and behave the way she thinks they should.

My exMIL was a bit like this. She was also a big drinker. One day while out for a lovely family dinner, after a few too many glasses of wine, she suddenly revealed to us all that she was raped as a young woman but that it was ‘her fault’ because she’d let herself be alone with the man and ‘what did she expect’. She brushed off any attempts at sympathy and told us she’d just had to ‘get on with things’ and ‘that’s life’. It made me realise that her views didn’t just come from nowhere and made me feel desperately sorry for her, even though I disagreed with her on just about everything.

@Meghansego I'm sadly not surprisesd. The Mccans were a bad off topic example, but mentioned more to illustrate "If I am good this won't happen to me or my family" mindset. I remember a pre-teen being raped in our local park a few years ago and the comments being along the lines of "what was she doing there after dark in the first place".

My mother is exactly the same, it's always the woman's fault.

So much so that when my XH hit me, it was all my own fault, I must have provoked him, because I'm "difficult " apparently.

@Steph64

My mother made me a feminist before Germaine Greer had put pen to paper.

If ever I dared to point out the unfairness between me and my brothers “but you’re only a girl”.

Someone’s had a new baby girl “they must be so disappointed”.

She doesn’t like little girls in particular. Boys and men are generally faultless. My teenage years were hell with very little freedom. Even the suggestion of a girl getting into a car with a boy would mean they’d be shagging on the back seat - she has a filthy mind.

Always has to comment on other females’ appearance.

She encouraged the violence rained down on me by my abusive father, my brothers were untouched.

She is perplexed by the joy I find in my children and grandchildren.

I haven't seen her for years. This suits both of us.

My mother loves to say: “Aren’t you so glad you had a boy instead of a girl?”

I caused the least headaches for my parents. I have only brothers.

@RedMarauder '@Nonbibblebibble was your grandmother worried that if she left anything to her daughters their husbands would take it?'

Nope. The boys were given money from the business to buy new houses outright before she died and afterwards in the 1980s inherited everything else. So it wasn't back in the day when men could take money off their wives or whatever.
My DM ran the office for 25 years without a penny over her very modest salary before she saw sense and left. She adored my GM, they all did.
She literally valued the sons more and everyone knew it.

There's sadly so many women like this. It's not really their fault considering they will have been internalising this misogyny their whole lives and grew up in an era where they really were expected to put up with it!

My own mum comes out with comments like this from time to time almost as a rote response but I always counter it with my view and she's open to discussion and often concedes. She has definitely become more feminist in her attitude due to these discussions which is great but if your mum is really a lost cause then I would simply refuse to engage on the topic. Walk away, change the subject, tell her you don't agree with her views so you think it's best you take the topic off the table.

@Babdoc

I’m 65. I was a radical feminist back in the 1970’s, and none of my contemporaries at uni would agree with the ghastly misogynistic views of PPs mothers and MILs! I was a hospital doctor for 36 years and raised my DDs on firm feminist principles. Please don’t condemn my whole generation - we fought some awesome fights for equal pay, refuges, access to male only jobs, paid maternity leave etc.

This is what I don’t get! What was my mother doing while women were breaking new ground?!

Yes there’s a lot of internalized misogyny in the older generation. It’s sad. I’ve given up challenging my mother. OP, your mother must have done something right though, as you’re an independent thinker.

I can relate OP. I’ve noticed that with my mum who is normally a decent person. Whenever there’s some reports of historical abuse going back a while she’ll comment on how the women should have just gotten on with their lives. Nothing on the man who got away with it. Whereas I’d think a normal response should be annoyance that someone got away with abuse for so long.

Also she’ll say things like “that’s how things were back then” in relation to sexual harassment at work etc but she says it almost with some nostalgia not as in a thank god things are better now.

@Oenanthe

Are you suggesting I have internalised misogyny as I am focused on my mother’s comments rather than my father’s?

Yes. Think about it, just for a second.

I’ve had 43 years to think about it. I suggest you don’t make assumptions. You are spectacularly missing the point.

She also constantly comments on the appearance of women on tv.

Yes! My mother CONSTANTLY comments on women's appearances on tv and real life. What I've noticed is she does it all the time too with her grandchildren constantly appraising their looks. Goes on and on about one of my DDs looks. She's always been image conscious but is getting much worse the older she gets and she's only in her late 50's! I don't really respond or just say something about their personalities. I really feel like bringing this up with her but I don't know how without her getting offended as she obviously thinks she's being complimentary and she is otherwise a really wonderful grandmother.

Most of us have at least a little internalised misogyny. How could we not, it runs through society?

I mean, you only have to look at threads where an op has suffered date rape or other abuse from men, and there'll always be someone victim blaming or trying to "gotcha!" them or what about the menz-ing.

@anxietyaunt

My mother is... something else. She’s never been much of an advocate for women’s rights. I’ve always known this so I shouldn’t be affected by some of her comments, but I am.

Despite being a smart woman and (allegedly) knowing the statistics around domestic violence against women, she can’t help herself. She thinks courts are unfairly biased towards women. That women should “stop carrying on” and sort things out themselves. “Deal with it.” “Stop making things up and ruining lives.”

This woman raised me. Sorry, not sure what my AIBU is, but I’m so incredible saddened by it all.

My mum’s the same. She also Blames women for being beaten / abused - apparently they’re clearly not good enough housekeepers which is why their husbands abuse them.

I tend to think that women that feel this way have been assaulted or harassed in the past and not felt able to go to the police or ask for help and try to rationalise/ignore it and convince themselves it wasn't as bad as they thought. Other women going to the police challenges that and they have to protect themselves . If that makes sense?

I don’t think this is very new; Germaine Greer observed it in the 1970s and how mothers treated their daughters more harshly than sons. I think that has changed but the generations before still carry a lot of it.

Plus frankly banging on about appearance just marks you out as an arsehole. Not sure that’s very generational!

Men couldn't build and maintain a hierarchical society without the help and collusion of women, but its one thing to know that women support it; its another to have to deal with them face to face.
(Talking about it doesn't make you a misogynist.)

Yeah my mum used to be a bit like this too. We suffered abuse at the hands of her second husband and it took a LOT of talking before she came out the other side and recognised that women are not the ones at fault for men's poor behaviour.

Years.

She sees it now but only because I've been relentless in calling out her internalised misogyny every single time I witnessed it.

It was a painful journey at times but things are a LOT better now.

@Oenanthe

This is a whole thread of woman-blaming.

Women fight like rats in a sack while men just carry on, ruling the world.

Stop hating on the women who raised you. Start trying to understand.

No. One of the biggest disservice to women is to treat them like these poor mistreated victims of the patriarchy. We make our own choices and decisions.

This thread has shown many women in the same generation did not internalise misogyny. Some did. Yes of course the wider social processes have an impact but don't be so patronising to women.

I am a Gen X er , I know women from my parents generation who were amazing and those who chose to pass on misogyny. Stop behaving as if women need to be saved even from other women. We are adults and so are they. Don't dismiss their behaviour in a way that indicated they were weak. Its insulting.

One of the biggest disservice to women is to treat them like these poor mistreated victims of the patriarchy.

Absolutely.

My DGM (born in the late 1800s) never saw the point to suffrage and having a vote. She thought that was 'silly.

@Blankspace101

Another woman bashing thread on MN

Glad to see I’m not the only one struck by the irony!

Stop hating on the women who raised you. Start trying to understand.

Does this obligation go one way, or both? Am I owed understanding when I ask her, for god's sake, to SHUT UP talking about poor rapists? How difficult it is to stop doing that when someone tells you they find it deeply upsetting, even if you don't agree?

My MIL has similar views, but she does not air them regularly. As a result, very few people have ever challenged her on them. I find it a very difficult situation to navigate, as things will slip out which give away her views, without her trying to make a point, and I feel a personal obligation to challenge her, but it is not always appropriate. She genuinely has no idea her views are at all controversial.

It’s not women bashing to point something out that doesn’t paint some women in the best light. It’s good to see I’m not alone in having to deal with it. Or are we to pretend women are flawless?